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Re: Ann Coulter
grunt #298592 03/26/10 11:00 AM
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This thread somewhat suprises me, but oh well we all have our opinions.


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Re: Ann Coulter
nickbuol #298595 03/26/10 12:59 PM
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Nick, I can't imagine anyone having a problem with what you said. After all, you weren't "talking politics", you were talking about the lack of many people's ability to have a discussion about politics these days.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think we can have a conversation here about politics without pointing fingers at our opposition and crying "foul"!

I'm an Independent, which is easy here in NH. We are SO inundated come election time. For those of you in Ohio or Pennsylvania or Florida who know what it's like when your state becomes a pivot point...it's ALWAYS like that here. I've seen / met just about every candidate in the last 8 years, and I don't mean just at rally's. You literally run into them on the street or in a diner. When they become front-runners, they're surrounded by "their people" and Secret Service. But early on, you just see them as pretty much normal people. Last election cycle, Joyce and I met and talked a bit with Dennis Kucinich at the local mall. The mall was pretty much empty (there was a snowstorm) and it was no event.... he and an assistant were out looking for a gift for his wife for her birthday. The whole thing really gives you a good sense of who some of these people are BEFORE the whole thing gets overblown. It's like seeing a band in a club before they make it big.

I never used to be involved in politics until a decade or so ago. I've always voted, but would vote for a Democrat, Republican or Independent depending upon who I think the best person was... regardless of their affiliation. Unfortunately, I don't think that can be done anymore.

I will say that I voted for Obama partly because I really thought that he would be able to unify the country and end the widening divide between parties. I don't see this as his personal failure, but the divide has only gotten worse. I think, to be a citizen who is politically aware these days, you almost HAVE to choose a side, which sucks. When both sides are busy slinging mud instead of doing their job, we all lose. They're too worried about making the other side look bad and not worried enough about doing their own job correctly.

I'm really beginning to think the system is broken. Maybe a two-party system can't help but disintegrate into this with today's "all media, all the time" technology. Someone says something in Kansas and within and hour, there's a soundbite of a rebuttal in Washington and two hours later somebody is ranting about it on their talk show for their ratings. It's insane.

After the big vote, some bricks get thrown through some Democrat Reps' windows, and when it's reported, the Republicans say that it's only being reported to make the Republicans look bad and the Dems are doing it for their gain. This struck me as so obviously "blaming the victim", but then the Dems send out a letter saying "send $$ to our party" so we can fight the Republicans.

They're ALL asses, and they've BOTH spun it so far that the original story is forgotten.

It's like gangs fighting for turf who don't even know why they're fighting...except something bad was done to them last week, so this week they have to do something bad back to the other side.

I seriously wonder what would happen if we voted ALL the Reps out and brought in new reps that aren't carrying all these old grudges.... though I guess that's not possible because anyone qualified to do the job will have already been poisoned by the divisiveness.

I've backed away from politics quite a bit in the last year, mostly because I'm disgusted with it all, and if I follow it closer I'll end up pissed off off the time.

I truly fear for this country. NOT because I think we're turning Socialist but because BOTH sides are just failing to work to get things done, and I don't know how it will get fixed. Neither side is backing off the "If you don't do it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home" attitude.

F**king children.

Grow up, get over it, and do the job you were elected to do. THAT's how you keep your job.


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Re: Ann Coulter
MarkSJohnson #298602 03/26/10 01:23 PM
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Politicians are supposed to put the country's well being in front of their own party or their own asperations, but it's clear they don't. Power at all costs?


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Re: Ann Coulter
Adrian #298604 03/26/10 01:35 PM
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Well, yeah...if you really want to boil paragraphs of blabber down to the real point or something...


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Re: Ann Coulter
MarkSJohnson #298605 03/26/10 01:39 PM
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"Don't blame me...I voted for Kodos"


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Re: Ann Coulter
MarkSJohnson #298606 03/26/10 01:52 PM
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Mark, your new material is not nearly as funny as your classic stuff. Trying out the new, darker edge stuff, eh? ;\)

Seriously, I think you nailed it. And that's a cool story about Kucinich, with a perfect analogy of seeing a band in a small club.

I can still be a Democrat fanboy at times, but I agree that they have their serious issues. They, too, are too beholden to lobbyists and special interest groups. Lewis Black reminded me of this when I saw him live. He enjoyed calling everybody numbnuts, an equal opportunity basher.

I do think that Obama got too caught up with the Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" approach. I think he is honestly exasperated that he can't achieve much bipartisanship. Realizing that reality led him to have that final reach out to the Republicans. Eventually, though, he realized his best remaining option was to go ahead and push unilaterally for what he thought was right as far as the health care reform (HCR) bill.

One thing that chaps me is the cries of the Republicans that Obama and the Democrats are arrogant, that they are pushing this down the throats of the American public. As to the arrogance, I think the Democrats are no more arrogant than the Republicans. Each side has its view of what is right and what it wants to accomplish, and that's that. Leave the name-calling out of it. As a psychiatrist, it seems like too much projection when you call the other side arrogant. Either that or you're being a bunch of crybaby losers. But I guess that would be me name-calling. ;\)

As to the pushing of HCR down the throats of the American public, there's two things that bother me. (1) The right and the South basically said the same thing about the desegregation of the military and the civil rights legislation of the 1960s. (2) So much of what the opinion polls reflected was fueled by misinformation and fear-mongering from the right. When people were asked about the particular details of the HCR bill individually, they approved of them. When people realize that HCR is not going to be Armageddon, as Boehner claimed, then maybe things will calm down a little.

I think what we are doing here in this thread is a positive step towards civil public discourse.


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Re: Ann Coulter
MarkSJohnson #298607 03/26/10 02:00 PM
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Good posts Mark and Nick. I agree with you guys. (And, Nick, it appears you and I start with the opposite political views, as I am what I'd call "radical left.")

On the Ann Coulter thing, that itself even is a tough issue. I know people talk about free speech, but there are lines that need to be drawn and these are tough lines. A university certainly should be a bastion of discussion and alternative views--the ultimate place to fight against the tyranny of the majority if you will and express alternative views. However, I think there are limits. If a university for whatever reasons wants to invite an open racist or anti-semite to speak, do the students need to accept that or can they rally to stop the whole darn thing? I personally think the latter is the case (though the rally needs to be done in the right way). I'm not comparing Ann Coulter to a racist or anti-semite, I know little about her. My point is even statements such as "it's a matter of free speech" often aren't cut and dried. Yes you have a right to speak, but I also have the right to object to you and your speech.

Lines are drawn every single day on numerous issues. What I think often is missed is the fact that even with the hardest issues, the debate often is nothing more than a question about where you draw the line.

Re: Ann Coulter
RayLewis #298610 03/26/10 02:11 PM
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Nick, I'm in your camp.


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Re: Ann Coulter
MarkSJohnson #298612 03/26/10 02:22 PM
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 Quote:
I'm really beginning to think the system is broken. Maybe a two-party system can't help but disintegrate into this with today's "all media, all the time" technology. Someone says something in Kansas and within and hour, there's a soundbite of a rebuttal in Washington and two hours later somebody is ranting about it on their talk show for their ratings. It's insane.


Yeah, I would blame the media for that more than the politicians or the system though. I think most of the people political ideas polarized when the media became a source of ‘entertainment’ and not a source of unbiased information. I’m getting older and cynical now, but looks like the media is now controlled by big interests and that is getting scary. Once you control people’s opinions you control the country.


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Re: Ann Coulter
2x6spds #298616 03/26/10 02:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
In Canada you're free to speak as long as you tow the politically correct multicultural party line.

Inquisitive Foreigner: "Excuse me, sir. May I ask why you have that long heavy rope tied to your waist?"

Oppressed Canadian: "Why yes. I happen to be towing the politically correct multicultural party line."

IF: "Umm, I think you've got your idiom wrong."

OC: "What do you mean?"

IF: "The correct phrase is 'Toe the line' -- which is meant to be taken figuratively and should evoke an image of people standing in unison, all with their toes behind a line painted on the ground."

OC: "You mean I can untie this blasted thing from my waist?!"

IF: "By all means."

OC: "Great! Now, where's this line you're telling me about?"

IF: **facepalm**

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