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Re: Over Research Mode
MarkSJohnson #308192 05/26/10 07:43 PM
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axiomite
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I know. As soon as I hit [Send] I heard the music. Look's like its a bike ride for me tonight.


With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: Over Research Mode
Murph #308988 06/02/10 01:13 PM
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Murph,
Thanks for the excellent write up on kayaking. I have been busy getting 2 home from college and purchasing the kayaks. We ended up with Pungos. They have a keel and therefore track very straight. We were told by several that it could be an issue on rivers but my wife was not happy with the other kayaks as she was struggling to keep straight - and I had a bit of a problem with it too.

We purchased from Get Outdoors in Greensboro. As we were saying we wanted to purchase the Pungos, a guy that I took to be another salesman came over and started extoling the virtues of the "Marvel". This kayak is made by Native Watercraft. I told the guy that I really did want to like the Marvel as it had the best seat and that the company is located here in NC. I also told him that I wanted to like it because I admired the story of the owner. In short, 2 guys started "Wilderness Systems" 25 years ago. Then a few years back, one of the men stayed with Wilderness Systems as they were bought out by a Corporation which now owns several of the leading kayak brands. The company was moved to SC and that it where it resides today. The second man did not want to move - so he stayed here and started the company "Native Watercraft". So.....back to the present, the guy (named Andy) told me that after a short amount of time on the water, my technique would improve and I would be able to keep the Marvel straight - and it would be better in rivers. I went on to tell him that I had e-mailed asking if I could get a tour of Native Watercraft facility which is located in Greensboro - but did not get a reply. Alas, our minds were already made up and we went with the Pungo - made by Wilderness Systems. It turns out that Andy was in fact the owner and CEO of Native Watercraft. He never did tell me who he was - I wish he had as I would have liked to talk to him.

Now for our purchase - the pungos are very stable and we are just getting our nerve up to lean out and tip the kayak on its side. I am sure we have a lot to learn in that area. Get Outdoors offers a basic safety and technique course when hou buy a boat from them. NOrmal cost is $75 - but free with boat purchase. We have signed up for this Saturday. It includes what to do if you take a spill. We also have the Fox 40's and have the PFD's - mine should arrive tomorrow - I have been borrowing my brother-in-law's. My wife bought an Astral "Bella" which is a side entry (also made here in Asheville, NC.) I had considered a pump and/or sponge - so I appreciate that reco. I am interested in your comments about a paddle float - I had thought that they were for insuring you paddle did not sink - but you are saying they are designed to help get you back in the yak? Also, what are your thoughts on floats for the bow? The stern on these boats has the storage compartment but the bow is open with a fairly small piece of closed cell foam glued in to the tip. Would it make it easier to get back right if you capsize? One more question - you recommended a throw bag. What is the benefit of a throw bag over just purchasing rope? Right now, I really do not know enough to even ask good questions - but we are enjoying ourselves.............Rob


"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill
Re: Over Research Mode
Argon #309010 06/02/10 03:42 PM
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Hey Argon, I'm very exited to hear you got yourself into a boat that you like. For what it's worth, I think you made the right choice. Yes, your skills will get better but if the "Marvel" is annoyingly hard to track now, you might get better at controlling it but the annoyance will always remain. Alternatively, your skills will develop just as much in the Pungo too but it will become "more fun" as opposed to "finally acceptable". Besides, now that you have made your purchase and are happy, I feel better in telling you that old school kayakers call those Marvel style boats, "Wormchuckers."

For your questions.
The term "paddlefloat" almost always refers to a re-entry tool. Almost all paddles you will find will float on their own. A paddles strap that attaches to your boat or lifejacket is a nice gizmo though. Then you can have both hands free for something and not see it float away.

Here is a great instructional video on how to use a paddlefloat.
Paddlefloat self-rescue
Notice it takes him a while to blow it up. You can buy a permanently ready, foam version. It is likely too bulky to store handily in the cockpit so you have to strap it to your deck but if you are in water cold enough to make every second count, it is recommended. I own both and take the foam one in the early and late seasons.

If you have room for a blow up floatation bag (or "sea sock") in the front without making yourself uncomfortable it can, as you say, be a good idea to increase flotation in the event you capsize. While I wouldn't consider it essential because at least your stern has a sealed bulkhead, it does also have the added benefit of reducing the amount of water you have to pump out of a capsized boat afterward. Just be sure to fasten it to the inside with a strap or carabiner. Nothing worse then watching your gear float away.

A throw bag is not much more than a line stuffed into a bag. The obvious advantage is storage. You don't end up with loose rope tangling everywhere and the bag is normally made to clip securely to your boat within reach somewhere under or above deck. Don't ask me how, but when you basically just stuff the rope into this magic bag, it never comes out tangled. The biggest benefit is that while you hold on to the end of the rope coming out the bag's opening, you throw the bag itself and let the rope uncoil out of it while in flight. The added weight of the bag and the rope enables you to throw it much, much further and much more accurately than just a length of rope. Especially in a bit of wind.

Again, Youtube explains better. Although this guy is standing on the shoreline and you won't be worrying about what "style" of throw to use out on a kayak.
Throw Bags


One of many Edits:
Here is a good example of an assisted rescue that you will likely learn on your course Saturday. The comment section make some valid critiques but it is still a good demonstration video.
T-Rescue
My comment would have been that once you learn it, begin to practice it in rough water. Waves add a whole new dynamic to the practice required and besides, how often will you flip in calm water?



Last edited by Murph; 06/02/10 04:26 PM.

With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: Over Research Mode
Murph #309025 06/02/10 05:01 PM
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Argon Offline OP
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Thanks for getting back so quickly. Can't check the Youtubes at work - so I will save that for later. Now I am curious about the "Wormchucker" term? Care to elaborate on that a bit? The float bags that I have found on line are tailored to fit in a "split bow" cockpit - so I don't think they will get in the way.

One other thing about the Pungo - it just so happened that REI was running a Memorial Day sale. All hard shell boats (including kayaks) were 15% off. REI carries the Pungo - but only in yellow. So....my plan was to dicker with the staff at Get Outdoors. I figured I could get them to come down some if not 15%. I looked at the argument from their perspective and figured they would counter with "We have the FREE safety course - a $75 value". Maybe "We offer FREE demos every other week" - which I had already been to 2. When I asked the sales guy if they ever came down on price - given that I was buying 2 - He said "No, we never deal on price". So I said, "Even if I can go 3 miles down the road and get them 15% cheaper?" He asked me where and I told him REI - he said there was no way they could compete with a company the size of REI. I expected that comment and I told him I agreed and understood - but "What can you do?" If he had offered to come off - say $100 on the 2 combined, I was willing to accept that deal. If he refused to deal at all, I was going to buy one from him and one from REI. That way I could get a color other than Yellow (laugh - but I am willing to pay for the color I want) and one of us would still get the free safety course. At any rate he repeated that they could not compete and I just replied again "I know, but what can you do?" He then said he would have to go and talk to the manager. Meanwhile, my wife slips off to another area as dickering always makes her nervous. So I linger near the manager and the salesguy (pretending to browse the accessories) and a couple of other sales guys join the huddle - they weren't very busy. I overheard "REI" and "15%" and "Margin Hit" and "We'll have to tell so and so" and a couple of others. The salesguy finally walks back over and I'm expecting a counter - he just says "We're going to honor the deal". So I smiled and said thank you very much while inside I'm high fiven and fist bumpin. Now, my wife appears and said what's goin on? I did my best ventriloquist deal - not movin my mouth - and said tersely, "They're Matchin REI". Now we're fist bumpin and long story short we saved $250 - both get the free course and everybody's happy.

Some times, you're just livin right.......


"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill
Re: Over Research Mode
Argon #309033 06/02/10 06:35 PM
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Congrats on sticking in there for the deal!

Worm...chucker refers to the fact that these short, fat boats with the big open cockpits make excellent fishing platforms but are way too much effort to enjoy paddling in anything but a small pond.

They all have their uses but a little friendly rivalry is always fun. Kind of like "Double Plankers" vs. "Knuckle Draggers" in the ski / snowboard world.


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