Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Cheap Speaker Wire Alternative

A couple of weeks ago, Chess started me on a search for some cheap/quality speaker wire around our local area. I found that a good option for anyone that's looking for cheap speaker wire (and believes copper is copper) is to get in contact with a local electrical supply outlet. On Friday I bought a 100' roll of 12ga wire with clear PVC jacket for $23 Cdn taxes included. So works out a little less than $0.25/ft. The outfit I talked to in Winnipeg was EECOL, but I'm sure you could find something comparable at any supply outlet. There was some minor confusion to start since they weren't used to selling to the general public, but it all worked out. For someone that is willing to do a little bit of searching, this'll end up saving even more than the Parts Express option!!!

There's probably plenty of people who've already figured this out, but maybe it'll be helpful tip to some in their search!

Yes helpful indeed.
25 Cdn cents per foot!!!

BrentR also kicked in some great leads for finding wire, although the outlet he deals with normally only sells to businesses, contractors and the sort based on info from another local friend who has told me this same supplier does not sell to individuals. BrentR can confirm this, or not, but he did give me a contact name at this outlet if i were to ask for a purchase. However, this is not an uncommon thing to come across if you do find a large local cable supplier.
Regardless, sid and Brent have found some truly inexpensive speaker cable. The wholesalers are the way to go, if you dig around.

I haven't purchased speaker cable yet for my Axiom/Yamaha set up. A friend who put togehter a really nice sounding home theater system recommended I go to Lowes to check out their speaker wire. I did, and found that they are selling a 250' spool of 12ga clear jacket speaker wire for $55 US! I didn't purchase because I'm still not convinced that cheap is good. However, from reading all the posts on this type of subject I'm leaning towards the believe that copper is copper.

I agree that copper is copper but I also have to factor looks into it as well. I just can't stand the looks of the clear stuff, even if it's all hidden I still know it's there.
I'm going to go with Axiom's because I like the looks of it.

Call me crazy

Yeah Ford, that's how I feel too.

I HATE admitting this, but I've spent more for wire, both interconnect and speaker, than I wanted or needed too, and I have a severe guilt complex about it. I haven't gone overboard, spending $50 to $100 per cable or anything like that. I think the most expensive cable I've purchased has been around $30, and the rest have been well below that (mostly Dayton from Parts Express, and Velocity from CablesAmerica). My justification for spending what I have, is that they (1) look better, and (2) seem more substantially constructed; less flimsy. So, I consider the extra money has paid for peace of mind, and personal satisfaction.

I too, like the look of the Axiom wire, but I've paid half that for some Canare, instead. But, if the budget allowed, that Axiom sure looks good..........HMMM.

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I'm leaning towards the believe that copper is copper.

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Well Harley, if copper is not really copper, then what is it?

You can wrap it anyway you like, bend it, melt it, blow on it, whatever, but unless some witchcraft alchemy of copper to gold is happening then the copper will still be copper. Ultimately those copper strands (99%OFC) are still what carries the signal from point A to point B in a ridiculously short distance at the near speed of light through what are known as electrons, a highly generic sub-atomic particle that is non-discerning between any metal nor energy signal.

Sounds like you are on the right track to finding a great wire deal.

Yes, aesthetics and general build quality i believe are big selling points. That's where the cable companies start with the 'low end' products and then move up to the elite car oiled, teflon impregnated, triple 9 OFC stuff.
Hey, i can go outside and poor some engine oil on my wire too but i don't think anyone would buy it at $45 a foot.

I personally have tried to find real bargains on reasonable brand names for cables. I found some Ultralink Discovery and Challenger series on ebay for about $12 cdn for 3 foot pair. These retailed in stores at $45-60 for the same stuff.
They are nicely built, look decent, but cost alot less than what you would find in stores. They certainly are a nice step up from the crappy bundled cords. The plastic sheathing on those things always seems to crack on me after a short while. Just horrible.

Can some scientist help me understand the difference (soncially) between solid and stranded copper? Does Romex "sound" different than stranded speaker wire of the same gauge? How about coax?

Tom, no sonic difference is caused by using either solid or stranded copper wire of the same(adequate) gauge. The stranded is more flexible and can be easier to work with in the heavier gauges. Sometimes you hear it said that stranded is better because all those strands have a greater surface area than one solid conductor, and they then often refer to "skin effect"(the tendency of electrical signals to travel more toward the outer surface of a conductor). They ignore the fact that skin effect is only significant at very high frequencies in millions or higher Hz. It has no significance at the very low 20-20,000Hz frequencies used in audio. The story is similar for coaxial cable.

...and while we're at it, how about that same scientist explain the crystalline structure of copper and why fewer and stretched out crystals are supposed to sound better...

Peter, you're just muck-raking.

Thanks, John, that helps.

Chess, the Allen article was interesting and for the most part very well written, but I suspect that John may have drawn the wrong conclusion on p.6 from the favorable result he measured. Although it was a bit difficult to follow exactly what was being compared, I gathered that two 6ga THHN single conductor wires somewhat loosely twisted together were compared with a 10ga 4 conductor solid wire cable with each pair joined to form the equivalent of two 7ga conductors. He comments that one effect of joining the pairs would be to "cancel inductance", and of course this isn't the case, but rather that closely spaced conductors minimize inductance. Note for example Gene DellaSalla's article on measuring speaker wire inductance which points out that it's directly proportional to the distance between the centers of the two conductors and for that reason the spacing should be minimized. Allen had the closely spaced conductors in the 4 conductor cable compared with the wider and variable spacing of the two THHNs. Presumably the wider spacing significantly increased the inductance, which would have resulted in a greater high-frequency rolloff. He comments that "In addition to flat frequency response, the inductance was also minimized", but it would appear that the latter caused the former and that the solid/stranded factor may have been irrelevant.

Continuing to add to the thread on inexpensive components, buyers may want to check out Solens in Quebec.

Click on Accessories on the left, then scroll down to see the pdf list of parts prices. You need the part #s first though so browse the parts list and note the #s before you open up the prices pdf file.
They have Prolink 12ga wire for 53 cents Cdn a foot (part # 2/C 12GA). The 16ga is only 23 cents per foot.

An update to the search for ultimate cheap (but quality) cable:
A brother in law of a friend's tech at work buys cable as a local contractor through some of the wholesalers previously mentioned. He provided us with 12ga cable for 20 cents Cdn per foot!! I've included pics of the cable quality (sorry for the fuzzy webcam snaps).
The cable is designed for audio use, has a blue PVC jacket, is flexible, etc. etc. The thread count is probably between 40 and 80 for those who care to know this information.





I also came across a good price for banana plugs on ebay. Since these plugs looked alot like the Ultralink bananas being sold at another site for $2 a piece, i asked the seller for more info on these plugs. Here was his reply:
"they are all made by the same few OEMs in asia. I buy them direct, but everyone from Ultralink to RadioShack sell them."
Brand name buyer beware is a good mantra to follow indeed.

What's the manufacturer/part number on that stuff? Looks good.

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What's the manufacturer/part number on that stuff? Looks good.

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Herein lies the tricky part of this search for ultimate cheapness. Once you find it, allowing others access to it is rather difficult and often the material itself has no real brand name and is just the unstamped product being sold prior to getting a brand name label.
When i first started searching i was looking for an online or local shop that i could walk into at any point in time and find/buy what i needed. Then the search sort of turned into a "just how cheap can we find good cable" kind of thing. Sidvicious did find a local place in which he bought cable for about 23 cents a foot. However when trying to buy more cable last week, my friend got shot down b/c he was not a contractor with a business account at the place. Sid lucked out.
Our present search revealed this latest hit but we had to go through 2 other ppl to locate it. At one point we were told the source gets this stuff for 12 cents a foot.

So here was my big question, if a contractor with any business name can setup an account, pay cash for each wire purchase and pay a really low rate, then why not allow any customer to walk in off the street and pay the same amount in cash for what they wanted?
Why does the wholesaler deny the walk in (or even the call ahead) customer?

Some would say, well many customers would only want a small amount of wire and hence the wholesaler cannot be bothered with such ppl wanting small sales. I can agree with that but then why not simply setup a policy, say, "minimum purchase of x feet or dollars required"? This is what Solens does although their wire price is still double that compared to what we found at local wholesalers but decidedly cheaper than anything bought online even at places like Partsexpress.

I've never been more disgusted with the markup of products than i am now knowing how much increase is added from wholesaler to retailer. We are not talking about a couple of cents per foot. We are talking about markups in the several hundred percent range and this is just for the so-called low end zip cord type stuff!!
I cannot imagine the thousands of percent markup that go into the wires at even $6/ft and beyond.

It makes me furious. No wonder ppl in this world are greedy. They have to be to afford the RETAIL prices for things.

As someone who works for a reseller of computer equipment and is associated with a reseller of cables, I can safely say that margins in the computer business are nothing like the margins in the cable business, which are enormous. In the computer business, we get 5-20%. In the cable business, they get 100% +.

Chess, I hereby crown you King of the Cheap Speaker Wires. Can't beat that deal.

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The thread count is probably between 40 and 80 for those who care to know this information.

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Chess, not trying to open a can of worms but what on earth would the thread count have to do with anything?

Does high thread count in a cable result in a more luxurious feel, like it does in bedsheets?

Oooh, 300 percale speaker cable....

Makes me snoozy and smiley just to think about it.

I thought chess used string instead of speaker wire anyway.

Oh, no, he's the one using 12 gauge cable (nice and thick). You're the one using thin little string stuff. ;-)

Mapleshades aren't string, they're more like Slinkies. Slinkys. Slinkies. Whatever.

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I also came across a good price for banana plugs on ebay.

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I bought a whole bunch of those bannana plugs from that guy. They work great.

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Chess, not trying to open a can of worms but what on earth would the thread count have to do with anything?

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Ford, some ppl think that more strands equals more resolution, less signal degradation, etc.
I put the strand count out there to give ppl a better idea of its flexibility. A higher strand count means there are obviously more, but thinner strands in the bundle. This tends to make the cable easier to twist ends and more flexible. The less strand count the closer the bundle gets to being a solid core. Obviously 6 thick wires making up a 12ga cable are much harder to twist than 100 small ones.
That's about the only reason i mentioned it. Increased physical description.

Nice plugs and nice pics.
Is that shrink wrap tubing i see on the ends?
Nicely done.

Did you crimp or solder?

I crimped them on and sealed off the ends with some adhesive heatshrink tubing. The wire I am using is the basic 12g stuff from knukoncepts.

Mike, i should mention that wire looks an awful lot like the stuff i just bought.

The plugs look great. I have some heatshrink tubing on order so i'm hoping to have my plugs redone soon as well.

The QT VR of your room is great. How did you make it?

Canon A60 + cheap tripod + Canon PhotoStich software. Its not that hard really, just take a picture every 15 degrees or so and the software does the rest.

The wire from knukoncepts is a very high strandcount, the highest I have ever seen in a 12g wire.

I like that twisted blue + copper. Pretty!

1madman1: Where did you get that heatshrink tubing from?? Looks good. I have used the stuff from RS, but you have to put so much heat on it iy scorches the wire.

Is the RS stuff shiny? I always go to an electronics store and look for the dull stuff that looks and feels more like rubber than vinyl. It shrinks more evenly in less time and with less heat.

I bought it from Main Electronics in Vancouver. It was $5.60 CDN for 36". Lee's Electronics just down the street from them is also a great source of cheap A/V-related cables and parts.

I also use KnuKonceptz. Love 'em. Where'd you get that shrink tube?

When I recently ordered my new Axiom QS-4's, (I already had the M80T1's for the main) I decided to go with Axiom's 12ga. wire, because of the distance. And then I thought, why not replace all of my old 16ga. wire at the same time, so I ordered 100feet of it. I sure am glad I did! Even though it was a whole .85 cents a foot, it was more than worth it. I had seen at the www.audioreview.com site that some users of 12ga. wire had second thoughts about it, but now that I have all my speakers re-wired with the larger gauge, I have really noticed a difference. My M80ti's sound deeper and fuller in the bass range, while the mid-range sounds slightly more open and the Axiom mid-range has always impressed me (male vocals,which can sometimes sound too nasal are more natural on the Axioms), while female vocals sound a little less harsh and brittle. I love the rubber coating; nice and flexible. Maybe I could have found the 12ga. wire cheaper somewhere else, but what is money, anyway---just a bunch of paper, so spend it before it burns up LOL.