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#313723 - 07/08/10 12:24 AM Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz
DreamTheater Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 92
Loc: East Haven, CT
My friend recently bought Akira on blu ray, 192/24 as we all know. We got into a big conversation of is there any truth to hyper sonics at all. Accoriding to that Nyquist theorem that means it should be capable of sending frequency signals of about 86 khz, 66khz higher than human hearing! I'm curious how many of you ever experienced super tweeters capable of that, and if you ever noticed anything in such recordings. In all honesty I think it is a gimmick, even though the idea sounds interesting. Can't find much scientific info on hyper sonics unfortunately, was wondering what you guys make of it.
_________________________
M60, VP150, QS8, HSU VTF2-MK 3, Marantz SR8002, Oppo BDP-83SE, 50" Panasonic Plasma

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#313726 - 07/08/10 12:26 AM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: DreamTheater]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
I think it's a bunch of horseradish, myself.
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#313730 - 07/08/10 12:31 AM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: Ken.C]
DreamTheater Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 92
Loc: East Haven, CT
Bantha fodder is my current stance on it as well.
_________________________
M60, VP150, QS8, HSU VTF2-MK 3, Marantz SR8002, Oppo BDP-83SE, 50" Panasonic Plasma

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#313741 - 07/08/10 02:00 AM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: DreamTheater]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Higher sampling rates are not about higher frequency response, but about less aliasing though out the audible range.

Since you brought up Nyquist, yes it takes a 40 kHz carrier to reproduce a 20 kHz signal, but that signal must be precisely aligned. Think about this a 20 kHz sine carried in a 40 kHz PCM encoding, will appear the same as a triangle wave, one sample up, one sample down. If that signal shifts 90° in phase, it becomes silence. 45° cuts the amplitude in half. Only right on do you get the full energy recorded. Anti-aliasing in the down mix only serves to average the stored signal into half-amplitude also. Even a more reasonable 10 kHz signal still has pretty bad aliasing issues. But if you increase the sampling rate four fold, it's much easier to store the full energy of the signal without having to worry about exact phase alignments.

If I were recording I'd master at 384 kHz, low-pass filter at 24 kHz, and then anti-alias into a 192 kHz mix for distribution. There'd be no ultrasonic component for so-called super tweeters (nor to destabilize poorly designed Class D amps), but a very accurate representation of the original analog waveform.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#313744 - 07/08/10 03:15 AM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: ClubNeon]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16277
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I nominate ClubNeon for US Secretary of Audio Mastering.
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#313745 - 07/08/10 06:42 AM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: pmbuko]
mpyw Offline
local

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 279
Loc: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
My Marantz SR6003 cannot process the 5.1 192kHz/24bit signal from the BDP-80 frown

It will only show 2 channel at 192kHz/24, playback the 96Khz/24bit version, have no problem with the processing....

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#313773 - 07/08/10 12:51 PM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: mpyw]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Chris I'm not sure you make enough money where ever it is you work... I wonder how well Axiom pays their engineer team?

wink
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#313781 - 07/08/10 01:25 PM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: mpyw]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: mpyw
My Marantz SR6003 cannot process the 5.1 192kHz/24bit signal from the BDP-80 frown

It will only show 2 channel at 192kHz/24, playback the 96Khz/24bit version, have no problem with the processing....

Quite a few receivers don't have enough power to both decode the a lossless 192 kHz, multi-channel, Dolby/DTS bitstream and apply processing.

See if you can configure the BDP to ouput LPCM instead of bitstream. Then check to see if the Marantz is still getting 192, and if processing has been re-enabled.

I still stand that BD players should only output LPCM, and do away with bitstreaming. smile
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#313786 - 07/08/10 02:19 PM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: Micah]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Micah
Chris I'm not sure you make enough money where ever it is you work... I wonder how well Axiom pays their engineer team?

wink

I would design things for free if someone would build them, and just give me one to play with.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#313787 - 07/08/10 02:31 PM Re: Has anyone experienced speakers over 23kHz [Re: ClubNeon]
htnut
Unregistered


If you're phone is ringing, it's probably someone from Axiom.

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