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Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
pastuch #314568 07/13/10 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: pastuch
If I set the 1019 to Prologic IIx will it still play the TrueHD or DTS HD MA tracks properly?

Stereo listening to 7.1: Do many of you actually listen to musc with prologic on? Do you find it enhances the music?

You can get a pretty good, "set and forget", if you press the "Auto/Direct" button on the remote until it says "Auto". Then play some 5.1 content, and press the "SBch" button until it says "On". That'll give you PLIIx for 5.1 Dolby bitstreams and LPCM, or NEO:6 for 5.1 DTS bitstreams. Stereo will come out stereo.

That said, I use LPCM input exclusively, letting my player do the decoding. I also force the receiver to decode everything with ProLogic IIx, including audio which was orginally DTS before the player turned it to PCM. I just prefer the way Dolby's processing sounds.

I used to use PLIIx Music for stereo music, but since getting my VP150, and not upgrading my crappy Sony mains yet, I don't need the center channel information spread to the left and right. So PLIIx Movie does just as good a job, as Music with the center width set to 0, and the rest of the settings at their default. Once I upgrade my mains I may to back to Music, and let the increase the center spread again.

(I suggest people who do like PLIIx Music, who have centers which are as good, or better than their mains try PLIIx Movie to see how it sounds for you.)


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
ClubNeon #314582 07/14/10 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I use LPCM input exclusively, letting my player do the decoding.


I've discovered that doesn't work when you don't have surround speakers. My system is 3.1 and it forces your system into stereo instead. So I just leave mine on Neo: 6 Cinema. So I doubt that I've ever heard Dolby TrueHD.

I know you said player and not AVR, but there's no sound coming out of the center channel, when Dolby TrueHD is being played and my receiver is on "pure direct". The receiver display says "PCM Direct" though.

Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
CatBrat #314583 07/14/10 01:11 AM
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It depends on the player. Some have down-mixing abilities. But you're right for most cases. The majority of players allow for mixing to 7.1, 5.1, and 2.0.

There's not much reason to use "Pure" or "Direct" modes, unless you don't want your AVR doing any processing.

Last edited by ClubNeon; 07/14/10 01:13 AM.

Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
ClubNeon #314612 07/14/10 04:35 AM
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pastuch Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I'll take #4.

When using a receiver which does it's own crossover processing, like the 1019 does, you should disable, or set the crossover in the sub's amp to its max. Since yours has a bypass switch, I'd use that (and set it to max).

The phase is more difficult. Unfortunately the right answer is, "what ever works best in your room", but again since you're using a Pioneer with phase alignment, the best may be to just set it to 0°, and let the receiver's MCACC do the adjustment.


I have never heard music sound this good in my theater before! SVS builds magic subs! Since disabling cross-over, changing the phase to 0, changing the speakers to "small" and disabling all the audio processing on my PC I am BLOWN AWAY. My sub makes even my mediocre $300 Sinclair Audio speakers sound great. I guess I could use the AVR or my PC for processing and surround but why bother! HUUUUGE GRIN on my face right now. Configuration is paramount! I need better speakers asap.

The new Phoenix album (Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix) sends tingles up my spine!

If the base model SVS sounds this awesome the higher end models are going to make me cry.

I really do wonder about mixing in a more musical sub with the SVS... Tomorrow I'm going to educate myself on multi-sub setups.

EDIT: MOVIES SOUND EVEN BETTER! I have to sleep now.

Last edited by pastuch; 07/14/10 04:50 AM.
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
pastuch #314619 07/14/10 05:12 AM
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Quote:

If I set the 1019 to Prologic IIx will it still play the TrueHD or DTS HD MA tracks properly?

Yes it will. For HD movie tracks I use either PLIIz or PLIIx +DSX (wide) but mostly the “wide” now. You still get the HD tracks but also get the “missing” channels, rear, height or wide depending on the settings.

Quote:

"I like my surround speakers directly to the side of my head (that's were my ears are), but found that with 5.1 content which pans from side to side in the surround channel, it seems to go over-head rather than around behind me. Though another way to fix it, is to place the surrounds slightly behind the listening position." < This is my current setup.

If using 5.1 I find that putting the surround speakers slightly behind the seating allows them to create a “phantom” rear effect so sounds panning across the rear don’t sound like they are going over your head. I have, in my last room 14x16 put the 5.1 surround speakers as far back as 135 degrees which was the back corners of the room. In the past Dolby even use to recommend putting them that far back however now the recommendation is about 90-110 degrees back. Playing around with there placement especially if there are nearby walls can generally achieve better results than just going with the stock recommendations since every room is a little different.

Quote:

Grunt (Dean): I just noticed your sig. Very nice setup. Three m80s? Is one of them your center? I'm a little jealous of your Panny 4000. The only thing that scares me is the non-sealed light-path in the Panasonics. I still LOVE my Benq W5000. It's such a great projector, total reliability, amazing lumens, DLP "Film like display". My friend has the Epson 6500ub and I swear I prefer the W5000. I heard your 4000 is very comparable to the new Epson 8500ub so I'm sure you have deeper blacks. I think I'll wait for the LED bulb PJs with the 40000 hour bulb life before upgrading. Also excellent choice on the BDP83... if I didn't have a PS3 I'd buy that in a heartbeat.


Here are some pictures of my living room theater, not many basements here in Phoenix:

Now, sort of

Before

Another veiw with most curtains open


The screen is blurry because of the camera operator. I still have work to do like getting a real carpet for the front but the temp one I through down makes the whole front of the room black from my seating so I’ve gotten lazy about replacing it with something that covers the whole floor.

I presently have 3xM80s (L/C/R), 2xM2s (Wide), 6xQS8 (Surround, Rear and Height) 1xEP500 and 1xButtkicker. I use to use 2xM22s as (Wide) but replaced them with the M2s so I could use the M22s elsewhere.

I am pushing the limit on screen size with the Panny 4000. The Benq was in the running because I do like the DLP picture so were the Epsons but the 4000 won out because I think it has the best shadow detail of the bunch (I do lots of gaming and fights never seem to happen in well lit shopping malls). Plus the Epson weren’t actually out when I wanted to buy so they lost out. I will not talk about dust blobs or red rings of death for fear that what I say will jinx me. wink

I am quite pleased with my setup and have no plans to upgrade anything soon. I to don’t wish to get another projector until some significant improvement comes out.

Quote:

if I didn't have a PS3 I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

Haven’t heard “in a heartbeat” since I left the Corps. smile

Cheers,
Dean



Last edited by grunt; 07/14/10 05:15 AM.

3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
Murph #314630 07/14/10 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: Murph
I'll throw something at # .5
I can't speak directly for the 1019 but don't assume that your receiver won't drive 4 ohm speakers just because they are not rated for it. It is rare that you will find a receiver company actually state that it is 4 ohm compatible even when most are as long as you are not pushing ridiculous volumes. They are just being overly cautious in many cases, although there are some models that have displayed problems. Your room is not very big so you won't need to push things at all to go as loud or louder than you need.



Has this actually been determed yet by anyone? I've been looking for an answer to this question for my Pioneer VSX-919 (virtually identical model) as to whether or not 4 ohm speakers would be safe to run. I've developed upgraditis with my M60s and VP150, looking to get a pair of M80s and VP180 in the near future with my bigger space I've aquired since a recent move. I'd rather not have to invest in a new AVR if I don't have to as it's only about a year old.


M60|VP150|2xQS8|PSA XS30+Epik Empire|Pioneer Kuro 6010FD|PS3|Denon AVR-X4000|Parasound 5250v.2|
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
grunt #314652 07/14/10 03:33 PM
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pastuch Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: grunt
Quote:

If I set the 1019 to Prologic IIx will it still play the TrueHD or DTS HD MA tracks properly?

Yes it will. For HD movie tracks I use either PLIIz or PLIIx +DSX (wide) but mostly the “wide” now. You still get the HD tracks but also get the “missing” channels, rear, height or wide depending on the settings.

Quote:

"I like my surround speakers directly to the side of my head (that's were my ears are), but found that with 5.1 content which pans from side to side in the surround channel, it seems to go over-head rather than around behind me. Though another way to fix it, is to place the surrounds slightly behind the listening position." < This is my current setup.

If using 5.1 I find that putting the surround speakers slightly behind the seating allows them to create a “phantom” rear effect so sounds panning across the rear don’t sound like they are going over your head. I have, in my last room 14x16 put the 5.1 surround speakers as far back as 135 degrees which was the back corners of the room. In the past Dolby even use to recommend putting them that far back however now the recommendation is about 90-110 degrees back. Playing around with there placement especially if there are nearby walls can generally achieve better results than just going with the stock recommendations since every room is a little different.

Quote:

Grunt (Dean): I just noticed your sig. Very nice setup. Three m80s? Is one of them your center? I'm a little jealous of your Panny 4000. The only thing that scares me is the non-sealed light-path in the Panasonics. I still LOVE my Benq W5000. It's such a great projector, total reliability, amazing lumens, DLP "Film like display". My friend has the Epson 6500ub and I swear I prefer the W5000. I heard your 4000 is very comparable to the new Epson 8500ub so I'm sure you have deeper blacks. I think I'll wait for the LED bulb PJs with the 40000 hour bulb life before upgrading. Also excellent choice on the BDP83... if I didn't have a PS3 I'd buy that in a heartbeat.


Here are some pictures of my living room theater, not many basements here in Phoenix:

Now, sort of

Before

Another veiw with most curtains open


The screen is blurry because of the camera operator. I still have work to do like getting a real carpet for the front but the temp one I through down makes the whole front of the room black from my seating so I’ve gotten lazy about replacing it with something that covers the whole floor.

I presently have 3xM80s (L/C/R), 2xM2s (Wide), 6xQS8 (Surround, Rear and Height) 1xEP500 and 1xButtkicker. I use to use 2xM22s as (Wide) but replaced them with the M2s so I could use the M22s elsewhere.

I am pushing the limit on screen size with the Panny 4000. The Benq was in the running because I do like the DLP picture so were the Epsons but the 4000 won out because I think it has the best shadow detail of the bunch (I do lots of gaming and fights never seem to happen in well lit shopping malls). Plus the Epson weren’t actually out when I wanted to buy so they lost out. I will not talk about dust blobs or red rings of death for fear that what I say will jinx me. wink

I am quite pleased with my setup and have no plans to upgrade anything soon. I to don’t wish to get another projector until some significant improvement comes out.

Quote:

if I didn't have a PS3 I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

Haven’t heard “in a heartbeat” since I left the Corps. smile

Cheers,
Dean


I'm going to try PLIIz tonight to see how I like it. Right now I'm using Stream direct with excellent sound quality. When I enable virtual surround through my computer the sound quality is brutal. I'm sure the AVR can do a better job with PLIIz.

The "in a heartbeat" is also a fairly common expression for first aiders. I'm a volunteer Ski Patroller and we take our first aid very seriously because we use it so much.

Your theater is beautiful. Love the 9.2 setup! The screen looks like it's mounted pretty high up, is your couch on a riser? I'm actually thinking about putting my couch on a riser for multiple rowed seating (instead of offset). How do you like using an M80 as a center channel?

What is a "Buttkicker"?

In Canada the Epson and Panasonic are the same price so I would probably buy the Epson strictly based on the epic warranty service they provide. They are both excellent projectors. The new Benq W6000 doesn't seem to have kept pace with the advancements of the Epson/Pannys. The Benq W6000 is a great projector and if you want the DLP look it's still the best option in this price range.

I won't upgrade my PJ until the LED bulbs are the norm in the 2k to 3k price range.

Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
pastuch #314670 07/14/10 04:29 PM
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Quote:

Your theater is beautiful. Love the 9.2 setup! The screen looks like it's mounted pretty high up, is your couch on a riser? I'm actually thinking about putting my couch on a riser for multiple rowed seating (instead of offset). How do you like using an M80 as a center channel?


Yes the screen is up high and at first I was going to build a riser, may still if I permanently add a second row of seats, (I just temporarily do it by dragging a futon from another room right now). The reclining chaise lounges I bought are huge including height so I ended up not needing a riser to get above the speakers. Also the Panny has a vertical adjustment dial so when watching 2.35:1 movies I can easily dial the image down to the bottom of the screen so it not way up there.

I love the M80 center channel. I’ve been using it for about 3 years now and would never have gone back to the VP150. I prefer the horizontal dispersion of a vertical center and having an exact match for the front 3 speakers. I highly suggest you consider using the M22s as your L/C/R so you can have the same three speakers across the front. As mentioned before when paired with a good subwoofer their virtually indistinguishable from the M8s paired with a good sub. However, for 2ch stereo the M80s win handily.

Quote:

What is a "Buttkicker"


This is the kit I purchased their “products” page has other variations:

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/home_theater/products/bk_lfe_kit.htm

A Buttkicker is a tactile transducer (there are other brands too) that attached directly to your seating or a riser the seating is on. They’re hooked up through an amp to your receiver’s LFE output and deliver LFE directly to your seating. Most if not all transducers will run off any amp powerful enough but by using the provided amp I get some advantageous controls one of which is a low pass filter (crossover) that allows me to control what frequencies going to the Buttkicker. I set mine so that only 40Hz and below go to the Buttkicker giving me the deep rumbling LFE w/o most of the musical bass coming through.

Most people have been using a “Y” splitter to run a Buttkicker off the same output as their subwoofer but since my Onkyo is 9.2 (2 adjustable LFE outs) I can calibrate my Buttkicker separately. The Buttkicker goes from 200Hz down to 5Hz with authority. Nice thing is that it allows me to “feel” the LFE w/o having to run the sub hot causing the higher bass frequencies to be to strong. For others reading this they are great for apartments since the LFE is coming directly to your seat and not through the air to be shared with the adjacent rooms.

I actually got this because a local retailer couldn’t move it off his shelf and gave me a sweat deal but I think that these things are hidden gems for anyone who likes action movies or gaming. For about 400.00 USD a Buttkicker will change the entire dynamic of a HT or as one Amazon reviewer put it:

Quote:

Value - Was going to put this last, but I think I need to put it first. With A/V home theatre, we're constantly battling with diminishing returns for every $ spent. That extra $100-400 will get you another HDMI connection or 20 watts of power or THX certification. So much money is spent on increasing specs that you can't really differentiate (ehem Monster Cables). This Buttkicker is one of those rare times that $400 will get you a huge (noticeable) impact on your home theatre enjoyment. So forego the extra money spent to grab a higher contrast ratio and get this product today.


OK my Buttkicker ad is done now. wink

Quote:

In Canada the Epson and Panasonic are the same price so I would probably buy the Epson strictly based on the epic warranty service they provide. They are both excellent projectors. The new Benq W6000 doesn't seem to have kept pace with the advancements of the Epson/Pannys. The Benq W6000 is a great projector and if you want the DLP look it's still the best option in this price range.


I think the Epsion is a better choice than the Panny for most people. There were a few specific features I preferred the Panny for and with a completely blacked out room the lumen difference becomes less important.

Cheers,
Dean


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
grunt #314681 07/14/10 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: grunt
I think the Epsion is a better choice than the Panny for most people.


If you were to buy one today, would you still buy the Panasonic?

Re: Basement Theater Upgrade - Advice please
CatBrat #314691 07/14/10 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Originally Posted By: grunt
I think the Epsion is a better choice than the Panny for most people.


If you were to buy one today, would you still buy the Panasonic?


Hard to say.

If the Epson had been out as early as the Panny I would have ordered both to demo against each other which is what I would do if I bought today. However, I had a lot of time off coming up at work and didn’t want to wait any longer on a purchase. That coupled with some unknown factors about the Epson and known factors about the Panny made the choice easy for me.

What I would say about the Panny is that I like it’s features. Frame response is great for gaming. Frame interpolation works like a charm. Out of the box the colour was spectacular so I felt no need for calibration. The picture adjustment features are great though I don’t use the auto zoom to simulate a lens since I have a 1.78:1 screen. I wouldn’t mind it being brighter (the bulb is closing in on 2000 hours) but not at the expense of shadow detail.

The following are why I would recommend the Epson over the Panny for most people. It’s brighter. For most people the pop-and-wow factor of a brighter image will outweigh most other image differences between the two. Lamp replacements are $100 less and the lamp theoretically lasts longer. Epson has a longer warranty.

I would recommend the Panny over the Epson for gamers as long as the brightness level is adequate. And for those who would benefit from the auto-zoom lens features. And those who want a slightly better implementation of frame interpolation.

Note that I am basing these recommendations on reviews of the Epson and not seeing for myself.


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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