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Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
#314501 07/13/10 04:19 PM
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My recent change of heart to add a TV to my great room is getting complicated. I’m looking for ideas in the event I haven’t thought of something. I have no intention to add surround speakers or a center. There is no where to place them in this room that wouldn’t look tacky. Just placing the TV in this room is complicated. Plus, I have a dedicated HT for movie watching. I currently have a two channel set up in this room and I like the simplicity of that. It’s nice not worrying about HDMI and the BS that brings. Now with the TV being added, HDMI video and digital audio enters the equation. I have a Rotel 1070 Pre and 1080 amp combo with an Outlaw ICBM for my sub, and I love this combination. It’s simple, looks good, and sounds good. But, the 1070 does not have any digital audio inputs. My cable box and BR player both have digital audio output. The cable box has analogue audio output too, but it sounds horrible. The BR player I was going to use does not have analogue audio. I know, all DAC’s should function similar, but the cable box manages to screw it up somehow and sounds horible. I also want to limit video input to the TV to one HDMI cable. I will have three sources; cable box, universal player, BR player. I may even add a Wii to the mix for drunken sword fighting….

For the video, I had planned to use a DVDO Edge. For the audio, I’m finding that piece a bit more complicated. I’ve looked at some outboard DAC’s, but none have HDMI input that I can find and I’m not terribly excited to add more complexity to this set up (pre/pro, Edge and DAC switching). So the obvious, and most simple solution would be to swap out the 1070 with an AVR that had HDMI, then I wouldn’t have to add the Edge or an external DAC. I don’t want to do that though… I’m fussy about esthetics in this room and would prefer to stick with a pre/pro that will match the 1080 in appearance. I have spent some time looking for a stereo pre with digital inputs, but I’m not having much luck finding one. There’s plenty of surround pre’s with HDMI, but that just seams wasteful to me. But, it may be my only option seeing how I don’t really want to use a receiver for aesthetic reasons.

Does anyone know of a stereo pre amp with digital input? If not, any other ideas I haven’t already thought of?

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #314506 07/13/10 04:51 PM
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I don't know if you will find a 2 channel pre that has what you want Mike. I would go with an AV receiver such as the Onkyo 707 refurbed. It's packed with features, ones you want and ones ya don't, and the price in minimal.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
Wid #314512 07/13/10 05:12 PM
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I like the drunken sword fighting idea.

I'm helping! grin

Yeah, I think you're screwed. I think the industry and consumers perceive HDMI as inferring multi-channel content. It wouldn't make sense to produce a HDMI-capable 2-channel preamp - the market share is too small (you and... anybody?).

Quote:
most simple solution would be to swap out the 1070 with an AVR that had HDMI ... I don’t want to do that though


Mike, what I tell my kids is "there will be times in your life where what you 'want' is relevant. This is not one of those times".

I think Rick's got you covered on that Onkyo. Or you could get another Denon since you haven't set your 3810 on fire yet.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
tomtuttle #314517 07/13/10 05:35 PM
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"yet".

That there's funny.


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Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #314542 07/13/10 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: michael_d
Does anyone know of a stereo pre amp with digital input? If not, any other ideas I haven’t already thought of?

You can build one:

One of the best DACs ever made; easily configured for stereo with S/PDIF input:
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

Pre-amp board to be fed by the DAC:
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/linestages/ivy.aspx

Volume control, if you don't want to be a 100% all the time:
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/control/volumite.aspx

The boards are only assembled a few at a time, and sell out much quicker than he can build them.


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-Chris
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
ClubNeon #314556 07/13/10 07:55 PM
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NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is in their masters series you didn't say any stated budget that i saw. ok um. on second though, its retail is like 6k$.... but it does seem to be the product your looking for!

btw... its amp seems to be pretty stout.....

2 X 250W Continuous Power at 8 and 4 Ohms

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
dakkon #314560 07/13/10 08:26 PM
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Chris – What if I just send you my 1070 and you modify if for digital input? I don’t see myself making one anytime soon.

NAD master series…. I’ll have to look at that one. 6K is more than I was wanting to spend. $1500 is about my limit, which is what an Edge and Benchmark DAC would run (option #2). I’m not apposed to used either.

I would go with an AVR, but it has to look cool. Onkyo, Denon, HK are all out. It would have to Rotel or similar.

Tom – did I ever let you out of your room? Mark, he needs no encoragment. Thanks buddy…. smile

I hate HDMI. I really do...

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #314561 07/13/10 08:34 PM
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Get the Benchmark DAC1. smile


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-Chris
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
ClubNeon #314599 07/14/10 02:45 AM
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Michael, yeah i was NOT expecting that thing to be 6k$$$$ i was thinking 1-2k$$ seems as though they REALLY like that unit eh?

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #314601 07/14/10 03:01 AM
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Mike, I did spend some time pondering your question and came to a conclusion, but then your comment about Denon and Onkyo receivers rendered me helpless.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
JohnK #314614 07/14/10 04:47 AM
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Would an alternative solution be getting a Blu Ray Player with built in decoders so you don't need to send the audio over an HDMI cable?


M3 and
M80
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
Lampshade #314617 07/14/10 05:07 AM
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Oppo's 83SE http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/ has the same class of DAC, of which I linked to the kit earlier, for its stereo out. It plays just about everything.


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Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
ClubNeon #314620 07/14/10 05:16 AM
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Does the Onkyo A-5VL Digital Amp help?


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
tomtuttle #314809 07/15/10 02:51 AM
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I know John, I'm not acting logical. The AVR is the logical choice.

That little Onkyo is pretty cute Tom. Definitely something to look at further.

Chris, I'm thinking about moving my BD83 to this system and picking up an 80 for the HT. I really just need a BR transport for either set up seeing how I have a Lumagen XS for the HT and I'll get an Edge for this one. I haven't looked into the two new Oppo's much, as I've been very happy with the 83.

Ya Dakkon, their pretty damn proud of that thing, but it's quite cool.....

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #315018 07/16/10 03:55 PM
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Is anyone familiar with the process of routing an AVR stereo (R/L) pre-outs to a preamp? I read where this is possible in a thread at AVS, but the preamp needs to have a bypass function. There is a list of amps and preamps that have this function here. http://www.audiophile.no/articles-in-eng...processor-input

Is it necessary to have this bypass function or can I just run the AVR R/L pre-outs to one of the 1070’s R/L inputs?

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #315020 07/16/10 04:21 PM
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Why do you want to keep the 1070 in there if you get another AVR? You also have the 1080 power amp, right?

It makes no sense to have two receivers together. But if that's what you want to do, then you'll need to set, and not touch the volume on the first receiver with the digital input. Where you set the volume is another thing. You're looking for the unity gain point (which doesn't technically apply to digital inputs). That's were the line-outs are delivering at max, the max input voltage the 1070 expects to see for max output.

It's a messy hack. Not many receivers have line-outs, only the higher end ones. Those will more than likely meet or exceed the performance of the 1070 itself. Or you could go with a straight pre-pro instead of a receiver. All of those will also be of the level of performance you're getting from the 1070.


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Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
ClubNeon #315022 07/16/10 04:23 PM
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Now I know how Michael helps stuff to blow up!






It wasn't me.

Tom made me say it!


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Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
MarkSJohnson #315025 07/16/10 04:27 PM
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Mike, I'm surprised your HDMI outputting stuff doesn't have optical outs. Surely there are thousands of little DACs that convert optical to stereo out.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
Ken.C #315106 07/16/10 11:56 PM
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Chris – It wouldn’t be two receivers, but one receiver with HDMI A/V processing into a pre/pro with an HT bypass function (or my 1070, if possible, without the bypass function). This way I could plug all the HDMI and digital stuff into the receiver and use its pre-outs as a common input to the pre/pro and keep my CD player going directly into the 1070. I'm not really set on anything at this point, just looking at all my options. As I initially indicated, I had no intention of ever having a display in this room and it was to be a strictly two channel rig, without video.

Ken - They do, but those little outboard DAC's are pretty expensive, $400 and up, and the ones that have remote switching are about $1000 and up. And, they all appear to be limited to three inputs or less. All the ones I've looked at so far have one optical, one coax and one balanced.

I'm actually thinking my best bet is to just buy a multi channel pre/pro with HDMI switching and get rid of the 1070. There are a few available (used or new) that are in very low demand now that everyone is moving to HDMI pre/pro's with video and audio processing, verses just switching. There are a few that are on the market for less than a third of the cost as when they were first released. I was looking at an Adcom that was $6000 new just one year ago and up for sale for $1500.

I think it really just boils down to the fact that I'm attached to the 1070 and don't want to get rid of it. It has an odd sentimental value to me that I can't quite figure out.

I know I'm being very silly over all this.... The smart thing to do would be as John and others have mentioned and just buy a friggin Onkyo (or other inexpensive) AVR and be done with it. Or even smarter yet, stick to my orginal plan and keep the damn TV out of this room.

Last edited by michael_d; 07/17/10 12:00 AM.
Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
MarkSJohnson #315108 07/17/10 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Now I know how Michael helps stuff to blow up!

It wasn't me.

Tom made me say it!


You just get your ass in the room, oposite corner as Tom. cry

Re: Stereo Pre/Pro with HDMI or Digital, or..?
michael_d #315113 07/17/10 12:27 AM
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Is it square? He's in like Flynn.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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