Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Balance.

I have been talking with JC since last few days about a irritant situation and i would like to share here. I own my 5.1 Axiom speaker setup for about 3 months now so actually i can say that it is well tuned and well-placed.
So my litle concern here is that i would like to upgrade my stereo listening. To get a picture here my situation

M3- VP150 - EP350 - QS8
Marantz SR5003 a/v reciever and SR8003 cd player.
Room 11x8x27 but listening is at 10feet front gears.

I found in the M3 to be a way to shy in the bass departement ( yes it's a bookshelf i know) I have been trying to put on my subwoofer for a 2.1 mode but honnestly it is hard to get it well integrated.
So at this point i am vacillate between 2 options

1- Sell the M3 and get a pair of M60 or maybe M80
or
2- Add a second subwoofer (EP350)

Both of these options are about the same price. I would like to know what would be the best way to go. The for or against either for home theater and music.

thx for any advise and opinions

If you like and you're used to the sound of the M3's, my suggestion would be to go with the M60's.

Adding multiple subs evens out the bass for more listeners, but if you've played with positioning and settings to improve the bass in the sweet spot, and that's where the bass is lacking, then getting another sub probably won't help you. Can you detail how you've ensured that your system is well-tuned and well-placed? Just curious.

Tried several spot for my subwoofer and i finally end with the subwoofer crawling tip from Alan. The truth is that i still feel the bass comming from the subwoofer.

What exactly is the problem you are having with your bass right now? No punch? Boomy?

After a year of trying to integrate my subwoofer into my system since I moved to a house it only happened after Charles (CV) loaned me his SVS AS-EQ1. No amount of positioning or even using dual subwoofers (dual subs don‘t always even out the bass especially in non-rectangular rooms) worked only EQ did the job.

I mostly use my M80s alone for music especially the EBM I listen to a lot. Although the bass frequencies of the M60s and M80s are still going to be subject to room interactions I find they work better for 2ch listening than going 2.1 without EQ for the sub. But this is very situational based on room and personal listening preferences.

OTOH buying something to EQ your sub is another option since that will also help out for other uses like HT and in the case of the EQ1 would cost less. Might want to see if SVS has a trial period in which case it might be worth trying one out. Also, there are other subwoofer EQ options available.

Cheers,
Dean

I know that you said your system was well-tuned, but I have to wonder if you're running it somewhat hot if it's blending that poorly.

What is your crossover set at? And are you using the crossover in your receiver (only?)

Acoustic Eq from reciever is off. LFE/HPF at 80Hz. Front speaker set at Large. And from my sub panel is at 150H and 0degree actually.
I have no clue what is a subwoofer EQ for. I might take a look at. See how connoisseur i am, that's why i am here.

What exactly is the problem you are having with your bass right now? No punch? Boomy?

No problem with the bass. I found it deep, well acticulate but just not always equal filling the room

I thought the problem was that it wasn't blending well with your M3s; that you could localize it?

No i am talking here about bass filling to room.

Perhaps the M3's aren't big enough for the space they are in???

Edit after reading post below: The EP350 bass goes higher frequencies than the EP500. I personally wouldn't go EP500 unless you're running M60 or M80. The L and R channel is supplying most of the upper and mid bass. I would go with M60 or M80 in that size of a room.

Dual subwoofers will even out the lower bass, but it won't supply mid to upper, IF THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

I would definitely recommend a second or bigger sub then.

Your ten-foot listening distance IS a factor with your M3s, but not with bass, which needs to pressurize the whole room. And you have a pretty big room to fill!

Generally, a second sub will add more even bass through the room, but it won't be any deeper or louder (unless you co-locate them together). If you wennt with a different sub, say a 500, you'll go bass that goes a little deeper, but won't be as even as running two 350s.

I would have a tendency to go for a 2nd 350 for a room like that.

Is it open to additional living space as well? Any photos you can post?

I will post picture later tonight. right now it annoys me ahah

here is my room, dont check decorating, way far away to be done. I've move last month

Here are my small dvd/cd's collection

Philippe, you say that you have the M3s set "large", but they certainly don't have the bass capability to justify this when a good sub such as the EP350 is available. The M3s should be set "small" with probably an 80Hz crossover in the 5003. In fact, with the M3s "large", unless you apply a special "both" setting(which you don't mention)the sub isn't used at all in music(where there's no .1 LFE channel).

Other comments are that I never use a 2.1 mode with 2-channel material. By not applying processing such as DPLII to extract surround ambience and send it to the QS8s where it belongs, you're not using your equipment to full advantage. The same might be said if you're not using Audyssey MultEQ, which is a major feature that you've paid good money for.

If you have inadequate bass when properly set up, a second sub, correctly positioned, will help both evenness and strength of bass .

John beat me to the punch. Keep the M3's set to small and 80hz crossover this should help with the music side of things. As John pointed out, when the mains are set to large the bass is not directed to the sub at all unless that special "both" setting is used, in a Denon receiver it is listed as LFE + Mains.

I dont know if it's a placebo effect but i have turn the M3 to small this morning and listening few cd's. Call me a fool but there is a good gain. Better soundstage, better bass extention. Now the M3 seem more concentrate on mids. In fact with eyes close i can barely tell where the sub is locate. Haven't put any movie track but i guess that will be closely the same result.
What can i say now, i will get use with those new settings in the next few days.
What do i upgrate now

No placebo at all, Philippe; that's the way the bass is supposed to be distributed. You set the mains "small", typically crossed over at 80Hz, so that the sub can actually become active and be responsible for most of the below 80Hz sound. Makes a significant difference.

Ummm.....Upgrade the M3's to floorstanders?

Now you upgrade your DVD and CD collection!

Get new floorstanders, change for the new VP180, add a second subwoofer, change my a/v reciever, buy my 50plasma, CD, DVD, power amp.
I wonder if one day i will be done

I'm not against upgrading, I think you would really like the M60's or M80's in your set-up. However if you're happy with the set-up you have now having changed the setting to 'small' then by all means, enjoy it for a while and then think about anything else you might like to upgrade to.

I like your room btw. One question though, did you route the wires from the right QS8 down the inside of the wall, but not on the left one? If so was there something keeping you from being able to run the wire down through the wall on the left side? I'm just being nosey, I saw you'd said you just recently moved, so perhaps you just haven't had time to route all the wires yet eh?

No the wire is only hide by the door molding, i actually still looking for a small bracket to hide the cable, anyone know where i can find it ? Here a good example of what i am looking for.

That looks like the stuff Home Depot sells to hide wiring.