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#316779 - 07/26/10 06:32 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: grunt]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By: grunt


I had expected that these sort of changes would be vetted through the customer council which having a customerís perspective would have caught some of these PR issues and prevented them causing confusion. Not knowing the councils actual mandate I may have been mistaken.

I submit that because of Axioms constant incremental product improvement process that they would benefit from maintaining on the website the equivalent of a software ďchange log.Ē There is already a perfect place for it as a ďstickyĒ at the top of the ďWhatís New At AxiomĒ sub-forum which actually misses talking about most of what is new. Having a separate change log would leave open individual threads for major developments like a new model release such as the VP180, or announcements of version number updates.

I really think that Axiom should consider implementing something like this for no other reason that to create a focal point for progress reporting which may in turn help prevent updates to the web page being missed and other PR issues from arising.

Just a thought,
Dean


Our mandate, at least as far as Iím aware, does not really exist in the rigid definition of the word. It is not a formal process with a concentrated focus towards vetting things by us. We have periodic teleconferences with Ian, Allan, Andrew, Peter and whoever else may be available that particular time. We then re-cap what was discussed via phone with a summery email, which we provide further input on. Usually, the meeting starts out with any new news that Axiom wants to discuss with the collective group. We then have an informal round table where ideas can be thrown out for discussion.

Regarding the V3 launch, we did discuss it and its timing. The timing was centered around the VP180 launch. It just made sense seeing how it was going to be shipped with all the revisions and it would surely get some focus seeing how the drivers look different and it has the magnetic grills.

In all honesty, I did not anticipate the V3 launch to go over like a lead balloon, much like it has. Axiom has always Ďtweakedí their speakers somewhat. They just donít go around giving them a new version designation every time they do this. Over time, as many little tweaks add up collectively, they give their speakers a new designation. This has been commented on numerous times by Axiom personnel. I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention. So, when considering the past version launches over the years, I just did not think so many people would be incensed over it to this degree. The only suggestion that I have made about the revisions, is for Axiom to post a timeline from Ti to now, with all the changes incorporated to date and their level of significance. I felt (and still do feel) that if current owners new what level of change there has been between what they currently have and the latest revision, some may want to ďupgradeĒ. I for one, want to upgrade my Tiís because quite frankly, I have always found the upper end to be too unforgiving and I find the latest upper end much more pleasing. Iím certain that some will think my motives for this are because they think Iím a fan boy and attempting to assist Axiom sell more speakers. This is not my intent. I love the way my M80ís sound - for the most part. Itís just that damn high end that I have always, from day one; felt was too harsh (at times). The mid and lower end are perfect to me and now with the latest changes, the upper end is perfect for me as well.

So in summery to your thoughts Dean, Axiom does vet things by us. But you have to remember that we are only four fellow A/V geeks with our own thoughts and perceptions. We can not possibly speak for everyone. We are not all knowing mind readers either. There are things you pick up on that never enter my mind. Whatís important to you may or may not be important to me.

And, I like your idea of a change log. It is in a sense, what I have asked for already.
_________________________


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#316781 - 07/26/10 06:34 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: PTPlayers]
PTPlayers Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 129
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob
_________________________
XPA-3
VP-180v3
M80v3
Svs PC-12 Plus
SVS SSS-2
PS-3
Sharp 60" LED
OPPO BDP-93
Anthem MRX500

Top
#316787 - 07/26/10 07:10 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: PTPlayers]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Quote:
I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention.


I agree Michael, and I think If that the very first post in this thread with it's anonymous glowing review of the new v3's had not been posted the version change would have gone over without as much notice or fuss. I'm still wondering how many folks out there have the v3's knowingly or unknowingly and haven't noticed a difference. I'm still waiting for someone who has had both to make a comparison.

Rob

Glad to hear you got you resolved the issues with your spikes.
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#316789 - 07/26/10 07:19 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: PTPlayers]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob


I'm glad you found a solution. Its not ideal, but is does allow you to set up the speakers the way you wanted and enjoy them.

I wonder if Axiom is going to put something in place to avoid this issue in the future. Something simple like threading a spike into each hole a couple of turns at the end of line to verify all inserts are threaded. Thats the kind of thing we do in automotive manufacturing all the time.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#316790 - 07/26/10 07:23 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: fredk]
PTPlayers Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 129
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob


I'm glad you found a solution. Its not ideal, but is does allow you to set up the speakers the way you wanted and enjoy them.

I wonder if Axiom is going to put something in place to avoid this issue in the future. Something simple like threading a spike into each hole a couple of turns at the end of line to verify all inserts are threaded. Thats the kind of thing we do in automotive manufacturing all the time.


I will call them and let them know to hopefully avoid this in the future .
_________________________
XPA-3
VP-180v3
M80v3
Svs PC-12 Plus
SVS SSS-2
PS-3
Sharp 60" LED
OPPO BDP-93
Anthem MRX500

Top
#316794 - 07/26/10 07:55 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: michael_d]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Originally Posted By: grunt


I had expected that these sort of changes would be vetted through the customer council which having a customerís perspective would have caught some of these PR issues and prevented them causing confusion. Not knowing the councils actual mandate I may have been mistaken.

I submit that because of Axioms constant incremental product improvement process that they would benefit from maintaining on the website the equivalent of a software ďchange log.Ē There is already a perfect place for it as a ďstickyĒ at the top of the ďWhatís New At AxiomĒ sub-forum which actually misses talking about most of what is new. Having a separate change log would leave open individual threads for major developments like a new model release such as the VP180, or announcements of version number updates.

I really think that Axiom should consider implementing something like this for no other reason that to create a focal point for progress reporting which may in turn help prevent updates to the web page being missed and other PR issues from arising.

Just a thought,
Dean


Our mandate, at least as far as Iím aware, does not really exist in the rigid definition of the word. It is not a formal process with a concentrated focus towards vetting things by us. We have periodic teleconferences with Ian, Allan, Andrew, Peter and whoever else may be available that particular time. We then re-cap what was discussed via phone with a summery email, which we provide further input on. Usually, the meeting starts out with any new news that Axiom wants to discuss with the collective group. We then have an informal round table where ideas can be thrown out for discussion.

Regarding the V3 launch, we did discuss it and its timing. The timing was centered around the VP180 launch. It just made sense seeing how it was going to be shipped with all the revisions and it would surely get some focus seeing how the drivers look different and it has the magnetic grills.

In all honesty, I did not anticipate the V3 launch to go over like a lead balloon, much like it has. Axiom has always Ďtweakedí their speakers somewhat. They just donít go around giving them a new version designation every time they do this. Over time, as many little tweaks add up collectively, they give their speakers a new designation. This has been commented on numerous times by Axiom personnel. I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention. So, when considering the past version launches over the years, I just did not think so many people would be incensed over it to this degree. The only suggestion that I have made about the revisions, is for Axiom to post a timeline from Ti to now, with all the changes incorporated to date and their level of significance. I felt (and still do feel) that if current owners new what level of change there has been between what they currently have and the latest revision, some may want to ďupgradeĒ. I for one, want to upgrade my Tiís because quite frankly, I have always found the upper end to be too unforgiving and I find the latest upper end much more pleasing. Iím certain that some will think my motives for this are because they think Iím a fan boy and attempting to assist Axiom sell more speakers. This is not my intent. I love the way my M80ís sound - for the most part. Itís just that damn high end that I have always, from day one; felt was too harsh (at times). The mid and lower end are perfect to me and now with the latest changes, the upper end is perfect for me as well.

So in summery to your thoughts Dean, Axiom does vet things by us. But you have to remember that we are only four fellow A/V geeks with our own thoughts and perceptions. We can not possibly speak for everyone. We are not all knowing mind readers either. There are things you pick up on that never enter my mind. Whatís important to you may or may not be important to me.

And, I like your idea of a change log. It is in a sense, what I have asked for already.


Thanks for the info, especially about how the customer counsel operates. Perhaps you might want to re-post that part over in the CC thread as I think it would be helpful to anyone wondering the counsel is about. Iím afraid many people even some regulars have confused the counsel with being some sort of moderators/ambassadors to the forum rather than what Iíve always assumed was suppose to be a sounding board for Axiom to use.

I suspect but donít know that the reason the V3 launch may not have been as smooth as the V2, though some said once that wasnít so smooth either, is five fold. The look, a more immediate difference since one doesnít even need to hear the speaker is striking. The magnetic grills for those who have experience with such things is IMO a huge improvement even though it doesnít effect the sound. And the initial review which started this thread wasnít tempered by the explanation of how Axiom incrementally upgrades their speakers. Something most forum regulars know but I imagine other donít. Plus, I imagine that Axioms potential customer base has grown since the V2 launch, plus the VP180 rollout probably meant there were a lot more people checking things out and ordering. More orders creates more potential for misunderstanding even when something as small as not automatically including spikes happens. Finally, making so many changes at once means all the change/growth ďissuesĒ that arise tend to get lumped together even if they are not directly related to the V3 launch.

I think all the changes Axiom has made, spikes, binding post, grills . . . are all for the better Iím just trying in my way to openly communicate to Axiom that they need to rethink how they handle their PR, especially when making so many changes, small or otherwise, at the same time. I note this because this isnít the first, time in the last year the ball has been dropped when communicating a change, resulting in irritated customers. Though I have no proof of it Axiom has become a bigger player in the speaker market thus drawing more attention than we all may realize, methinks.

Iím glad you have expressed an interest some sort of change log. I do appreciate that Axiom re-designates speakers when the accumulated changes become significant. However, I do think that maintaining a customer accessible change log may help people looking to buy new, upgrade or buy used speakers. Just like software change logs they could have decimal changes between major revisions.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#316801 - 07/26/10 08:27 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: grunt]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I too would love to see a change log, but worry that it would cause more V3-like responses with each update.

I understand why manufacturers don't say, "we have a new product coming out in two months to replace our previous version." When they do that, all sales stop for two months. But in the same vein, when a new product gets a surprise release those who just purchased a short time before feel taken, that if they had known they would have waited.

Physical products are not like software in this regard. If a new version of a program comes out right after you buy, you can usually upgrade for free. Smaller bug fixes are always available for free to registered users. So the analogy isn't 100%.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#316807 - 07/26/10 09:04 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: ClubNeon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Well written Chris. Those who bought just prior at lease get the accoustic benefits of the new version.

I can see that it would be frustrating for those who wanted the magnetic grills or new look drivers.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#316827 - 07/26/10 11:43 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: ClubNeon]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I agree that a company shouldnít normally pre-announce a new version since as you say it will postpone sales.

But I donít see posting previous changes some period, causing to many problems. Perhaps Iím wrong. Based on what Iíve read someone can call Axiom with their serial number and apparently get specific information about what components their speakers contain. Maybe just making that better known is a step in the right direction.

As for frustration if someone missed an upgrade Fred, well thatís already happened many times irregardless of a change log being updated after the new features are released.

Even if Axiom finds that something like a change log isnít worthwhile they still need to get a handle on how they introduce new products and how to do multiple changes at the same time w/o alienating people who thought that they were getting something else between when the put something in their cart and actually ordered it.

Maybe this is just growing pains because Axiom is expanding/changing things rapidly. I can not, however, call a company like Emotiva for something like this and in good conscience not also do so when I see Axiom doing the same thing.

I will never accept that outstanding customer service doesnít start before the purchase. And IMO Axiom has recently on some occasions been dropping the ball on that aspect of CS which IMO downgrades them to an excellent at best.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

Top
#316829 - 07/26/10 11:56 PM Re: Version 3 [Re: grunt]
Ichigo_Kurosaki Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 463
Loc: Japan
Originally Posted By: grunt
I agree that a company shouldnít normally pre-announce a new version since as you say it will postpone sales.

But I donít see posting previous changes some period, causing to many problems. Perhaps Iím wrong. Based on what Iíve read someone can call Axiom with their serial number and apparently get specific information about what components their speakers contain. Maybe just making that better known is a step in the right direction.

As for frustration if someone missed an upgrade Fred, well thatís already happened many times irregardless of a change log being updated after the new features are released.

Even if Axiom finds that something like a change log isnít worthwhile they still need to get a handle on how they introduce new products and how to do multiple changes at the same time w/o alienating people who thought that they were getting something else between when the put something in their cart and actually ordered it.

Maybe this is just growing pains because Axiom is expanding/changing things rapidly. I can not, however, call a company like Emotiva for something like this and in good conscience not also do so when I see Axiom doing the same thing.

I will never accept that outstanding customer service doesnít start before the purchase. And IMO Axiom has recently on some occasions been dropping the ball on that aspect of CS which IMO downgrades them to an excellent at best.


LOL I got my order on the right time of transition being able to get the v3 total package, but still there is one speaker missing that supposedly was shipped last week on Thursday, in which case I would have already gotten they here. I e-mailed Axiom asking for the tracking number so I could get a right delivery time frame and they couldn't find one, so I was told they would get back at me on Monday since the factory was closed. As for now has been no contact from Axiom so far and no tracking number at all. That's really frustrating since it's been 5 weeks I paid Axiom and still don't have my whole set delivered and no prospective of when it will. Even though I like the speakers a lot I am definitely considering sending all back. That's sad but Axiom has given me a real bad shopping experience so far.
_________________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

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