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Rights vs Privilege
#317068 07/30/10 01:15 AM
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fredk Offline OP
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Given some of the posts here lately, here is some commentary courtesy of the Economist.
How much free speech??


Fred

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Re: Rights vs Privilege
fredk #317079 07/30/10 02:50 AM
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I don’t see grad seminars or parliaments as similar to online forums though if the point she is making is that the rules operate similarly then I agree.

In a group discussion the “noisy” person can not be effectively ignored however, ignoring someone in an online forum is easy, just ignore them selectively or completely with the “Ignore Button” most forums have. No need for rules or moderation unless the forum or server owners have to stay within legal boundaries or feel compelled to stay within moral ones. It takes two to argue so let the noisy person have a monologue with them self. But then there’s always the someone(s) who just can’t stay quite.

As for discussion rules I’ve never been part of a group where the rules weren’t used to stifle debate in favor of the rule makers/enforcers.


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
fredk #317080 07/30/10 02:59 AM
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Speaking as a moderator, or pseudo-moderator, on an online forum, I have to agree with the article. There is nothing wrong with having rules of behavior up to which all participants are expected to live.

The article poses the questions "on what legal basis can you claim the right to free speech in an online forum?"

In a similar thread on the aforementioned forum an attorney posted some interesting observations including...

"We all know if we run someone over with our car we can be sued for the resulting injuries. However, some people think they can post any fool thing they want and the 1st amendment protects them, which is simply not the case. "

"...one of the things that slays me is how quickly people start talking about censorship in a private forum. The prohibitions of the first amendment only apply to the government. (Notice how the first words are "Congress shall make no law. . .") This is a private forum, so any "rights" you have here are based on the hospitality of the site operator. Nobody owes you a soapbox."


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ajax #317082 07/30/10 06:29 AM
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Hey, Jack, nice to hear from you.

Re: Rights vs Privilege
CV #317084 07/30/10 08:58 AM
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Yeah, Jack's been silent awhile.

I wonder who silenced his free speech here? smile


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
MarkSJohnson #317088 07/30/10 01:35 PM
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In the context of company owned forums and active ongoing censorship look at the two biggest examples - AV123 and Emotiva.

Than you have the others at the extreme opposite that do not censor at all. Axiom, Ascend and Aperion.

Companies that censor their forums usually have something to hide either about their products or the way they conduct business. On the opposite spectrum look at Axiom, they have quiet confidence about their products and when you run a business in an ethical manner, there is nothing to censor. Axiom should be VERY proud of the fact they do not moderate with a heavy hand.






I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Rights vs Privilege
MarkSJohnson #317089 07/30/10 01:47 PM
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Well, we working men are kinda busy ya know. wink There are those who have been profoundly grateful for my silence. I had a few things I would've liked to say in the V3 thread but, under the circumstances, considered it prudent to keep my mouth shut.

However, this topic is one that is near and dear to my heart. I never cease to be amazed at how many folks feel annonymity gives them license to behave in ways they never would in a face to face situation. frown

Not that I'm advocating the following, but it would be interesting to see if such behavior would change if a person's real name, real address, real email, and real phone number were prominently displayed in each post's signature field. whistle cool


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ajax #317091 07/30/10 02:02 PM
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2x6 slipped up and posted his real name and real email a while back. Let's see if it makes a difference. smile

Re: Rights vs Privilege
pmbuko #317092 07/30/10 02:05 PM
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The only difference is going to be the amount of spam he receives in his email account. shocked


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Rights vs Privilege
BlueJays1 #317094 07/30/10 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dr.House
In the context of company owned forums and active ongoing censorship look at the two biggest examples - AV123 and Emotiva.

Than you have the others at the extreme opposite that do not censor at all. Axiom, Ascend and Aperion.

Companies that censor their forums usually have something to hide either about their products or the way they conduct business. On the opposite spectrum look at Axiom, they have quiet confidence about their products and when you run a business in an ethical manner, there is nothing to censor. Axiom should be VERY proud of the fact they do not moderate with a heavy hand.





It is interesting to see the differences in how the companies you mention conduct themselves. What’s also interesting to me is how despite a companies confidence there are always some owners who don’t seem so sure. . . . wink


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
BlueJays1 #317096 07/30/10 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dr.House
The only difference is going to be the amount of spam he receives in his email account. shocked

One of my former practice partners in Virginia is the older brother of movie producer Roy Lee. He told many interesting stories about his brother, one of which is his method of dealing with people who cross him. He uses their email address to register for multiple porn sites.


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
medic8r #317097 07/30/10 04:00 PM
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Aren't there bots out there that harvest email addresses that are posted in public forums to mass spam as well?


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Rights vs Privilege
BlueJays1 #317098 07/30/10 04:04 PM
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So I've heard, but I'm hardly the resident expert on such things. I imagine there's an ongoing arms race as far as evading them. At first, medic8r(at)mail.com might work, then the bots learn that (at) = @, and "DOT" = . etc etc


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
medic8r #317100 07/30/10 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: medic8r
Originally Posted By: Dr.House
The only difference is going to be the amount of spam he receives in his email account. shocked

One of my former practice partners in Virginia is the older brother of movie producer Roy Lee. He told many interesting stories about his brother, one of which is his method of dealing with people who cross him. He uses their email address to register for multiple porn sites.

One interesting thing is that when you usually log into a porn site, they usually get info from your computer like your e-mail and so on. So in this case doesn't he also receive lots of spam? LOL I did that thing when I was younger, but the person really deserved. I was on some B2B website doing business and just got fooled by this guy. crazy Lost some money I sent him for products samples.


Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ichigo_Kurosaki #317102 07/30/10 04:44 PM
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That con man got off easy Ichigo. I'm sure it was still satisfying. smile


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Rights vs Privilege
BlueJays1 #317104 07/30/10 04:52 PM
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Nicely done, Jack.


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ichigo_Kurosaki #317107 07/30/10 05:25 PM
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You know what I like about this forum? It's not Axiom that moderates this forum, it's US, so to speak. It certainly helps that Axiom is a respectful company with excellent products, so it doesn't seem to attract troublemakers to begin with. But, if there are disagreements about something, we mostly go about discussing them in a rational and well mannered way. So, I think a lot of it is the forum members themselves who make it work. Occasionally, there have been troublesome individuals, but they eventually went away on their own because WE chose to ignore them. I think that says a lot about us here, and why many of us have stuck around long enough to feel like we know each other.

I know what I'm saying here might be a bit off topic, but I appreciate this group here a lot, and the fact WE make it work so there's no need for moderators.

I thought THIS was sort of funny...scroll down to read "a note to vegans". What?! Are vegans known to be troublemakers? HAHA! Very informative article, BTW!


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Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ichigo_Kurosaki #317109 07/30/10 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki
I was on some B2B website doing business and just got fooled by this guy. crazy Lost some money I sent him for products samples.

Enlargement products so he could be a bigger dick?


See Mojo's signature
Re: Rights vs Privilege
Ajax #317152 07/30/10 10:59 PM
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fredk Offline OP
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Excellent post Jack.

One of the more interesting examples of forum rules I have run across is hometheatershack.com. Swear words, even ones considered very mild by todays standards, are automatically filtered out. Personal attacks are not tolerated. I must say that the tone of posting there is very good.

Sonic. I also find this forum quite amazing. For an unmoderated forum it is very civil.


Fred

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