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#322868 - 09/16/10 02:02 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
What's an air conditioner?

It's a heat pump.
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#323464 - 09/21/10 09:05 AM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: pmbuko]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1121
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Wow, this thread almost slipped me by! Better late than never, I guess. Excellent posts by all. There are only a couple of points I can add:

- In Ontario, you can no longer buy a forced-air gas furnace under 90% AFUE.
- There are rebates available from the Provincial Government and the Ontario Power Authority (OPA) to upgrade your furnace. A home energy audit is required, (which will cost you ~$350.00), but you could qualify for up to $940.00 in rebates.
- Most manufacturers also have rebates available.
- If you are truly moving within the next couple of years listen to John:
Quote:
AFAIK the big selling feature is "new" furnace, not "fancy" furnace.
Excellent advise.
Conversely, if you are staying in the house, the multi-stage gas valves and ECM motors are WELL worth the extra money.

With regard to the quoted "Savings" on fuel costs, it really depends on the age and efficiency of the existing furnace. I have seen consumption cut in half in a number of installs, but it is not common.

Also, since you are moving, don't get talked into spending more on one of the higher end name brands. Even a cheap-o builder furnace will be relatively trouble free for the first 5 years if installed correctly. Please note that I will give the exact opposite advise if you are staying in the house long term.
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#323466 - 09/21/10 09:28 AM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: bridgman]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1121
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: bridgman

One other obvious point -- smaller furnaces running longer tend to make for more comfortable houses and lower fuel bills. If you size the furnace to keep your house toasty on the "coldest day in 5 years" that's probably bigger than you need... next time I would go with something sized to "keep the house comfortable on the colder days running most of the time" and put on a sweater or light a fire on the occasional freeze-ups.

Spot on, John. That's why there are multi-stage furnaces that will match their firing rate to what the house needs. Far more efficient heat delivery and comfort than a single stage unit.

Quote:
I guess having the furnace burning relatively more of the time would translate into a shorter heat-exchanger life but I've never actually heard that discussed.

Actually, just the opposite. The thermal expansion & contraction from repeated short heating cycles, causes more wear and aging than fewer, longer, heating cycles. Similar to a car with mostly "highway miles" vs "city miles"
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#323919 - 09/26/10 03:31 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: real80sman]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6600
Loc: It's all about the location.
New high efficiency furnace getting installed tomorrow. It's an American Standard which apparently is the same as the Trane units sold in the B&M stores but at a much more reasonable $$.
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#323938 - 09/26/10 06:38 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: real80sman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: real80sman
Actually, just the opposite. The thermal expansion & contraction from repeated short heating cycles, causes more wear and aging than fewer, longer, heating cycles. Similar to a car with mostly "highway miles" vs "city miles"


Interesting, and very good to know. I guess that pretty much eliminates all of the arguments for "oversizing" a furnace. Thanks !!


Edited by bridgman (09/26/10 06:45 PM)

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#334983 - 01/19/11 05:25 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: bridgman]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6600
Loc: It's all about the location.
Just an update on the new high(er) efficiency('bout 92-93%) furnace I had installed back in the fall....I'm definitely seeing a reduction of 25-30% on my gas bills each month, woo-hoo!....should have done this sooner.
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#334993 - 01/19/11 07:19 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: Adrian]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10832
Loc: Central NH
That's quite a substantial amount! Congrats!
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#335001 - 01/19/11 08:15 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4010
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Adrian, that's great news! Just curious, did you opt for an EMC motor? If so, you should also notice a significant decrease in your hydro bill.
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#335003 - 01/19/11 08:57 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6600
Loc: It's all about the location.
EMC?
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#335009 - 01/19/11 10:18 PM Re: Furnaces: High Efficiency vs...... [Re: Adrian]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4010
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Oh. here ya go, bud smile . Sorry, it's ECM, not EMC.


Edited by wheelz999 (01/19/11 10:21 PM)
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