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Storm damage to HT room?
#324819 10/05/10 03:07 PM
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Now that I'm working on gutting out my family room, I'm giving some thought to converting half of it to a HT room. I wish I had the expertise of using Google CAD for room drawings, but the one and only time I tried, I couldn't get past trying to do the basic stuff.

Anyway. I need to go home and do some measurements. The one thing that might kill this project is the ceiling height. It's somewhere in the 6 1/2 to 7 foot area. The width would be 1/2 the width of the house, which would make it about 12 foot, the length would be probably about 20 foot, with a bath to the back. One window near the back, a door near the front that leads to outside. I plan on replacing this door soon, it's old and weather worn and has a window in it.

I'm still going to tile the floor because of possible future water leaks under the door, but I could use area rugs to dampen the sound. Below the tile is concrete.

Not sure where to mount a projector. The ceiling would be the floor from a bedroom and bath from above. Might be ok, but a low mount might be better.

The other room, outside the HT would be the entrance from the garage on one side and the other side is stairs leading down to the basement and up to the kitchen. In the middle of the outer wall is a old fireplace that could use a face lift.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324823 10/05/10 04:00 PM
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You could mount a projector in that set-up, no problem. Just watch your head when passing underneath it. My basement HT has only 7 foot ceilings, but it is a drop ceiling, with joists immediately above. Go with the tile and lay down a nice, thick wall to wall type carpet as an area rug.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Capn_Pickard #324826 10/05/10 04:09 PM
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Is that your basement HT in the Wall'O'Fame pictures?

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324827 10/05/10 04:14 PM
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If you mean the gallery, then yes. It's hardly famous...

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Capn_Pickard #324828 10/05/10 04:16 PM
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lol. It's called Wall'O'Fame on this page ^^^.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324829 10/05/10 04:21 PM
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Ha! That must be new.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Capn_Pickard #324838 10/05/10 05:36 PM
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The ceiling in our TV room is also only a smidgen over 7', I surely wouldn't let that deter me from making an HT room out of that area. The bath and the outside door aren't on both front and back walls, are they?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
RickF #324840 10/05/10 05:38 PM
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Bath door would be in the back wall.
Outside door would be right wall, about 3 feet back from the front wall.

I'm thinking about a door that swings in (currently out) to be able to lock it better, perhaps with a bar across it.

I'm also thinking about removing the window entirely. There is also a window in the bath, and 1 on both sides of the fireplace in the other room.

Probably also need to add a couple of small fans high up on the wall and a space heater or 2. That is along with a vent for heat and air conditioning.

This is starting to sound like both fun, and a lot of hard work. The center wall doesn't exist yet. All of the walls need to be torn down, add insulation and replaced. The outer walls are concrete up to about 3 feet, which will get covered in sheetrock with 1x1 for studs. At least it'll be easy to add the speaker wires.

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/05/10 05:50 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324846 10/05/10 05:56 PM
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If comeone at Axiom sees this, please change the title

from "Storm damage to HT room"

to "From storm damage to HT room"

Thanks.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324848 10/05/10 06:03 PM
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You (or I) can change the topic for all future posts (as I just did). But that doesn't change the initial post.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324850 10/05/10 06:11 PM
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CatBrat,

I tried to change the initial post topic under "Manage Topic" but it didn't work.

Cheers,
Alan


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
RickF #324854 10/05/10 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: RickF
The ceiling in our TV room is also only a smidgen over 7'

That sounds right. I remember about 3' of head clearance while I was there! smile


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
ClubNeon #324885 10/06/10 12:33 AM
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I took some pictures of the area I'm thinking about turning into a small HT. The outside drain had clogged up during the storm and water flooded this room. Not deep, but enough to wet the carpet in the entire room, then go down the steps to the basement and out the drain there. I would probably put dull black or dark brown tiles on the floor in this room, just in case I had another water problem. I would also line the walls with some edging tile pieces to keep the walls from getting wet. Would have to take special care around doorways to make sure they are sealed up also. I could probably just use some cheap area rugs to deaden the sound reflections.

Room area approx: W x L x H = 13-14 x 16 x 7.


Wall where screen would go.


Outside door to right of screen. Gets replaced with new door without window.


Window in middle of wall gets removed completely. Back wall goes up for bath. Door in middle of wall.


Shows problem area near steps. Would probably have to put in a diagonal wall with door leading to HT there.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #324967 10/06/10 05:21 PM
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I called a contractor today to see if I can remove this door altogether, without breaking a building code. If I can, then that would stop the water leak and I can concentrate on carpeting instead of tile. I don't know what it would cost, since someone would have to pour about 4 feet of concrete where the door is in such a fashion that it wouldn't develop a leak. Also would have to remove the outdoor concrete steps and fill it in with dirt, and plug up the outside drain. (I could use a new patio too. Maybe they'll throw that in for free. Whee. Yeah right.)

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325010 10/06/10 08:41 PM
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I think that room looks like a perfect candidate for a PJ set up. The soffit on the left side will serve nicely as a hanger wall for your side speakers. And you'll even have some room behind the couch for the 7.1 set-up, should you choose to go that route.

Just remember that you'll need to feed the projector with both video and power, so getting your contractor to put in an outlet in the ceiling near the PJ is key.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Capn_Pickard #325016 10/06/10 08:48 PM
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Actually, I'd prefer the SQ8 to be mounted on the wall. I haven't decided yet where to put the wall. With the pole on the inside, or the outside. On the inside would give the HT room more room, but then it presents an odd look on the other side of the wall. But I think I'd rather design for HT and not Fireplace and walkway, so the pole will probably go inside the HT. I'll also have to install new heating/air cond. vents... yada yada yada, the list goes on and on and ....

I think I will build a cheap screen and buy a cheap PJ from BB so I can have something down there while I'm working on it. Otherwise, it's going to be around 2 years before I can use it. (Edit: Reason is I want to pay cash for a newer vehicle, so gotta start saving some moola. Maybe put savings in my Roth IRA. At least lately it's been going up instead of down.)

Contractor = me grin

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/06/10 08:54 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325026 10/06/10 09:07 PM
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You might consider putting another "false" support post on the opposite side of the room if you're concerned about the single post in the HT throwing the balance off.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #325034 10/06/10 09:16 PM
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Nah. I prefer smooth walls. Only if it will help in some way. I really don't want to tear up the ceiling but I may have to around the heat duct so I can re-arrange it the way I want it. I'll be removing the cover around the pole and probably build one out of sheetrock so that it at least matches the wall.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #325035 10/06/10 09:16 PM
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Unless it was just an absolute necessity I'd ditch the outside door myself and make that bathroom into a kitchenette/bar area, that room looks like it's a perfect candidate to be made into a home theater. I surely do wish we had a base like that as a start with our particular room.


Rick
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
RickF #325037 10/06/10 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: RickF
Unless it was just an absolute necessity I'd ditch the outside door myself and make that bathroom into a kitchenette/bar area, that room looks like it's a perfect candidate to be made into a home theater. I surely do wish we had a base like that as a start with our particular room.


That's not a bad idea. I'll have to give it more thought. I've already bought the toilet, sink and corner shower enclosure, and a couple of small cabinets for it though. Bought these several years ago and just haven't done the job yet.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325101 10/07/10 02:22 PM
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Cat - check out projectorpeople.com. I got a great deal on a PJ there. You can actually call them and speak to a live person, too. They have lots of PJ's set up in their showroom and are knowledgeable enough to give you advise on what will fit your needs/budget. They are a lot more than just a wholesale/retail depot.

Also, I would take the opportunity to invest in a nicer screen now (assuming you have the cash on hand) rather than buying it twice. As for the PJ, there is something to be said about getting a "low-end" 720p PJ and upgrading in a couple of years.

On the other hand, if you're tempted to hold off on buying the screen, you might try to simply paint a white square on the wall that matches the PJ picture as a temp solution - not great, but it's a pretty good facsimile of the real thing.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Capn_Pickard #325103 10/07/10 02:47 PM
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Thanks Adrien, I'll definitely check out that site. As to the screen, I'm just going to make one for now. Purchase some screen or blackout material and stretch it over a homemade frame. I really don't want the good stuff until I finish the room. If the cheap stuff gets clobbered during construction I'm not out so much.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325107 10/07/10 03:39 PM
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On projectorpeople.com's comparison page, the LG CF181D for around $2500 seems to have the highest PQ. I'll have to explore this one further for a possible later purchase.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325157 10/07/10 08:45 PM
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Has anyone tried carpeting their home theater ceiling and/or walls? I was wondering what this would do, for sound and looks.

What got me thinking about this is this picture. It's the 4th picture down, orangish, and titled "The Golden Theater Era Memoirs". This ceiling probably isn't carpeted, but it gives an idea of what it would look like to put a dark carpet with a design in it on the ceiling. (Vacuuming could be a problem).

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325187 10/08/10 03:21 AM
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I see that the info in the above ^^^^ link shifts a bit over time. It's now the 5th picture down, so this message will be totally irrelevant and confusing in about a week.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
pmbuko #325198 10/08/10 01:42 PM
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Um. Thanks.

:shakes head, wondering why I didn't think of that:

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325278 10/10/10 01:16 PM
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I'm trying to decide on which width of room to go with for HT. The narrower 10'10" is more visually pleasing from both inside and outside of the room. My other option is about 12'8". The 12'8" causes the I-beam to be in room (covered, of course) and the pole under it to be stuck into the room about 2 feet. And it puts the wall only about 3 inches from the door leading into the garage. This is unsightly from both views.

Now that I've decided on the narrower 10'10". I can get a 2.25:1 screen that would fit exactly (I want the biggest screen that will fit and I prefer the look of the 2.25:1. 136" diagional screen will fit this.

This limits placement of the speakers. I now have to place them all over, under, or behind the screen. Behind the screen means I have to install in-cabinet speakers with the backs of them into the garage. My garage is somewhat short to begin with. It's a 2 car garage, but the only electric door opener is on this same side. I probably can't install one on the other side because of some structural brace in the way.

Problems, problems...

How much noise comes out of the backside of the in-cabinet speakers? Anyone know the answer to this?

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325311 10/10/10 11:39 PM
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One more question...

How close can I mount a screen to the front of the in-cabinet speakers without the air from the speakers vibrating the screen?

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325328 10/11/10 05:22 AM
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Sorry, can't sleep, been thinking about how I'm going to solve my problems.

Water under door leakage problem: Solution: Hire experienced mason to brick up to height of concrete wall (about 4 foot), then apply some sort of stop leak goo (if it exists) to outside of wall. Then fill outside stairway with dirt.

Front speakers. Put 3 in-cabinet M80s in wall behind screen. Build a box surrounding them on the back-side, in garage. The height of box should be higher than my car hood, so no problem parking car in garage. Pad box with insulation and leave studs exposed behind screen to allow warm air to circulate to keep speakers from freezing.

I've located an unused 36 inch wide solid wood door for $35, to use for HT entry door. Just have to get a friend with truck to get it for me.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325355 10/11/10 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
One more question...

How close can I mount a screen to the front of the in-cabinet speakers without the air from the speakers vibrating the screen?


How far do I place my speakers behind the SmX CineWeave screen?
The speaker baffle can be 2" - 3" minimum up to 24" or more from the screen.

According to http://www.smxscreen.com/projection-screen-questions.html#1

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325357 10/11/10 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
One more question...

How close can I mount a screen to the front of the in-cabinet speakers without the air from the speakers vibrating the screen?


You can place the speakers up to approximately two inches from the screen surface, as long as you don't have ports with high velocity airflow. The deeper the bass that the speakers behind the screen are reproducing, the more you space you should give between them and the screen. You can place a subwoofer behind the screen as long as it is spaced at least 12 inches away and no ports are directed at the screen.

According to http://seymourav.com/screens.asp

Well, this tends to negate my plans, because the M80 in-cabinet have front ports. Back to the drawing board. I wonder if I can interfere with the ports in such a way to force them to be down firing ports instead?

Edit: Or make sure the ports are firing below the screen?

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/11/10 09:29 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325359 10/11/10 09:30 PM
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Can't you have the ports firing underneath the screen? or do you want the speakers completely concealed by the screen?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325360 10/11/10 09:33 PM
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Hi,
At 2 inches in front of the M80 In-Cabinet port you could install a large deflector to deviate/spread its air flow.


jc
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Jc #325361 10/11/10 09:51 PM
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Thanks. I like the deflector idea the best. That probably could be easily built into the frame that holds the screen a couple of inches from the wall. I was just looking at some paradigm in-wall speakers, but they didn't look to be any better then the on-wall M22's. I would prefer the full range sound of the M80's.

I want the clean look of not seeing any speakers at all. This would allow me to have a 130 inch wide 2.35:1 screen. But that might be too much at 8 to 11 feet viewing distance. It definitely would be impressive.

My goal is to have a smooth, clean, simple look, with only the QS8's and maybe a sub visible in the room. If I can afford it (with a little luck in my Roth IRA), I'd like to put the EP800 under the screen on it's side.

A longer room would be better, but that's just not going to happen anytime soon.

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/11/10 09:57 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325362 10/11/10 10:16 PM
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Hi CatBrat,
The EP800 in its horizontal version could be inserted in a niche under your screen and it would give you spectacular and awesome bass.

I'm a big fan at sitting close to the screen. I normally find people sitting too far away, spoiling the large screen effect. I have a 16 x 9 - 151" diag. screen and I sit 14.5' feet away which I feel is great. On action sports, like hockey, I sometime feel that I'm sitting too close. Friends coming over to watch a game find it too close and move back one row. Your main sitting position at only 8'11" from your large screen, it might be uncomnfortable for action movies and sports.

You should seriously consider testing your sitting distance using the appropriate ratio.


jc
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Jc #325366 10/11/10 11:58 PM
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It's going to be kind of hard to test the sitting distance without a projector. It'll be a little while before I can get one. It seems that the one I really need is the Panasonic ptae4000u and the price is still around $2000. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to wait until about the last thing to see exactly what size screen I need. I want to get the room going good first. But if I can fit a 120 to 130 inch screen, I say why not. (At least for now). At theaters, I like to sit about 1/3 to halfway back.



Last edited by CatBrat; 10/12/10 12:09 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325367 10/12/10 12:08 AM
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I removed the paneling on the screen side of the wall, hoping that the 3 1/2 foot concrete wall didn't go around the corner to this wall also. That would have been a problem. But, as you can see it's only about 1 foot high.


Here's the screen wall with the paneling removed. I'm shining a flashlight on the center stud where the center speaker would go. I'll have to move/remove it. These are 2x6's with a 2x2 tacked on for the inside wall for a total depth of 8 inches. The M80 in-cabinet is 18 inches deep, so this leaves 10 inches sticking out on the garage side.


Here's the garage side of the wall. Here I need to build out a cabinet area about 12 inches from the wall to house the backside 10 inches of the in-cabinet M80. It looks to me like it should fit. I'm going to re-sheetrock this wall in the garage also because the old stuff needs too much repair to make it look decent again. A lot of bad patchwork from the previous owner that doesn't show up here.


Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325368 10/12/10 12:10 AM
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You can test the distance without having a projector. Go to a store where they have a good projector and screen set-up; move back and forth. Establish where you feel comfortable (using multiple types of video material)then measure your distance to their screen and do the corollation with your installation (projected seating distance and screen size).

I helped a friend installed his Panasonic 4000U a few weeks back; it is a superb machine. I own a 2000U and the 4000U is much better.


jc
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Jc #325369 10/12/10 12:16 AM
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Good idea. There's a HT store about 15 miles from me that has a screen setup that I can test with. Thanks.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Jc #325370 10/12/10 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jc
Your main sitting position at only 8'11" from your large screen, it might be uncomnfortable for action movies and sports.


I just noticed this. It's 8 to 11 foot, not 8 foot, 11 inches.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325375 10/12/10 02:20 AM
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Oups, sorry !


jc
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Jc #325391 10/12/10 03:29 PM
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I was just browsing the gallery and this one is the same layout as the room I'm working on with the door (almost) and the pole (exactly) in the same place, and the same size room. Only I plan to put up a wall where the pole is.

Edit: This room does look to be longer, though.

Other than that I didn't see any rooms that are doing the same thing that I'm doing.

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/12/10 03:43 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325399 10/12/10 07:27 PM
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I hired a roofer to replace my roof today from the hail damage. A guy from Australia. I don't pay until the jobs done, and the insurance covers all except my $500 deductible. He's supposed to do it the end of next week.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325405 10/12/10 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I hired a roofer to replace my roof today from the hail damage. A guy from Australia.

Couldn't find a local guy, eh?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #325419 10/13/10 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Adrian
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I hired a roofer to replace my roof today from the hail damage. A guy from Australia.

Couldn't find a local guy, eh?


Yeah. It costs extra to ship one over from down under....

I picked him, because he's already done some jobs in my hood, and I'm pretty sure he'll do a good job.

And I liked the picture of the boomerang on his brochure.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325526 10/14/10 03:14 AM
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I visited the local home theater store today and here's what I discovered. The rule of thumb of viewing distance should be 1.5 times the screen width is true. They had a 2.40:1 screen in a darkened room with a movie playing. The screen was 9 feet wide. When I sat 9 feet back, it was impressive for, oh, maybe a minute or 2, then it started to bother me a little. Next I moved back to about 14 feet and it was much, much better on the eyes.

I don't think I'll be getting a 10 foot screen and sitting 10 foot back, like I had planed. The inverse of the 1:1.5 ratio is to multiply the viewing distance by .64, so 10 feet back would be a screen size of 6.4 feet. I'm thinking 7 feet would be ok. That should still give me enough screen to cover the 3 M80 in-cabinets, except I'll need to expose the front ports below the screen. This should look ok, I hope. It won't matter too much in the darkened room anyway, but if I have to, I could cover the ports with some black material.

They also had some black sconces that I thought would look really cool in a black room.

The screen company that they use for acoustically transparent screens is Stewart Filmscreen Corporation. 8 foot 2.35:1 runs $2000, which is their smallest, but I can special order a 7 foot from them. They microperf the screen material.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325888 10/18/10 03:51 AM
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I've discovered this Dricore product over the weekend. It looks like it's been out for a while. I'm considering laying this over my concrete floor before reinstalling the perimeter and divider walls.

www.dricore.com

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325897 10/18/10 06:18 AM
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I've been told by several flooring installers that it is not required unless you have a known moisture/dampness problem in the concrete it is going over. As far as the heat value, I bought a few panels and did a little experiment of the temp difference between the dricore wood and the temp of the bare concrete in my basement and the temps were exactly the same. The only difference was the wood would heat up under my foot and feel warm after a few minutes while the concrete was always cold. I then placed the flooring product we are going to use on top of each and tried the test again the following morning and this time I felt no difference between the 2. This little test saved me about $1600.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #325910 10/18/10 12:19 PM
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Ok. Once I eliminate my leaking doorway, and plug up at least 1 crack, that I know of, I may not have a water problem. I've always had, at least a little, water leakage, then this storm. I'm surprised that it takes on the temperature of the concrete. That room has always been the coolest spot in the house. Good in the summer but not so good in the winter. This concrete floor is about 60 years old, if that makes a difference. The entire floor is 22 x 19 for 418 sq foot / 3.3 = 127 tiles. One disadvantage I can think of is these look like they would burn right up in a fire.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325930 10/18/10 03:17 PM
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Oh ya, they would burn in a fire, but so would any other product you put on the floor except of course tile. Speaking of which, you could maybe look at a heated tile floor. It will be slightly more expensive but it will also BE warm, something like this is used under the tiles.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #325934 10/18/10 03:34 PM
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That is interesting, but I doubt if very practical for my application.

A space heater would probably work best. And possibly a dehumidifier. A dehumidifier would solve a couple of problems. There is a drain just to the backside of where the equipment alcove will be. I didn't want to leave it open due to possible escape of sewer gas. But the dehumidifier would guarantee that the trap in it would always be full of water, if I can find one that will fit well in this spot. Plus it would kept the possibility of mold at a low level.

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/18/10 03:36 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #325937 10/18/10 03:38 PM
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It is starting to sound like you would actually benefit from the Dricore product.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #326054 10/19/10 06:55 PM
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Well the person that I asked to brick up my door told me several things, but 2 of them were:

1) He would not brick up the lower door, because shrinking/contracting would still cause it to leak, and..
2) I need to spend about $2100 to have a basement wall braced, because it's leaning inward about 1/2 to 3/4 inch and cracking. When it gets to about 2 inch lean, that would require a $6000 excavation, wall pull-back and bracing. This wall started leaning about 4 years ago.

Well, there goes 2 grand. I'll have to wait until after the first of the year when the money becomes available. This house just loves to keep me broke.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #326087 10/19/10 10:47 PM
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The Real Money Pit, you could start your own Reality TV show based loosely on the movie


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #326111 10/20/10 02:19 AM
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Or move.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
RickF #326114 10/20/10 02:32 AM
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I'd consider a move, too.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #326144 10/20/10 12:24 PM
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Possibly, but that sounds rather costly also. Things like, resetting the counter on a loan to pay more interest. I've paid interest for 9 years on a 30 year loan here. Coming up with down payment and closing costs.

If I sold this place first, then perhaps I'd have the money for down payment and closing costs, but I'd have to already have a place picked out to move to, which with some work is a possibility. But it's the starting of a new mortgage that scares me. I'm 58 and don't have 30 more years to pay one off. Even a 15 might be a little on the rough side. If I increase my payments from 1000 to 1400 now, I can reduce the 21 years I have left to 10. I plan on doing this starting in 2012 when some money is going to be freed up.

I know. Gripe, gripe, gripe.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #326839 10/29/10 12:28 AM
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One of these days I'm going to have to get a real camera.

I just bought these ceramic tiles today that will go in the room just outside of my HT where the main walkway and fireplace is. The colors are beige and brown. It'll give the room a cheerful and artsy appearance.




I just noticed one of the corner ties was off by 1/4 rotation. Good thing it's not glued down.

Last edited by CatBrat; 10/29/10 12:41 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #326841 10/29/10 02:28 AM
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re mortgages, have you considered weekly or biweekly payments, Brian? it does pay your loan down quite a bit faster.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #326842 10/29/10 02:33 AM
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At one time they offered twice a month payments, but only if it was automatic payments. I don't trust automatic payments, especially something as big as a mortgage. I occasionally need the money temporarily to fix my car or something, so I'd rather pay later a couple times a year. I sometimes send in extra principle with a payment. If I sent in 1/2 a payment early, I don't think that they would apply it until they received 100%, because of an answer I got back from them about this before.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #326844 10/29/10 02:37 AM
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I remember writing 78(bi-weekly) post dated cheques when I first bought my house. I could hardly move my fingers afterwards.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #327033 10/31/10 02:52 AM
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I tell you, it's been one thing after another since July this year. Here's a break down.

Things that broke in July:
My car's cooling system, $150.
My car's air conditioner, broke twice for a total $1,100.
My cordless drill, $200.
My easy chair, $400.
My clothes drier, $400.
My washing machine, $700.
My glasses, $350.

Things that broke in October:
My roof, $500 deductable, so far.
My foundation, $2,100 to brace a wall (not done yet).
My car's fuel pump and filter, $500.

Today it was the fuel pump, and carless for a couple of days.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327035 10/31/10 02:57 AM
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You're driving an Edsel, Brian?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327037 10/31/10 03:00 AM
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I'm glad you're not my urologist.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #327038 10/31/10 03:00 AM
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Or worse. It's a 98 Chrysler Cirrus. It's a rarity when I see one of these on the road today. Yet I only find one or two in junk yards. I wonder where they go when they conk out for good.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327041 10/31/10 03:27 AM
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A friend of mine had a 96? Cirrus. In less than 8 mos it blew a head gasket amongst other serious problems....he got rid of it after a couple of yrs and bought a well-used, higher mileage Protege which he's had very good luck with and still owns.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #327042 10/31/10 03:34 AM
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I've had this car since April 1999. I put 50% Lucas in it when I change the oil because it burns oil. I want to save money to buy another car, but as you can see, that's hard to do when everything else keeps breaking all the time and zaps my funds. I really, really don't want car payments. I'd rather keep patching this one up before I make car payments again.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327043 10/31/10 03:41 AM
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I know, it's difficult when you have a car that keeps costing, but sometimes it's better to cut your losses....personally, on a car that old, I wouldn't put any $$ into except the very bare things it needs to run. I'd look at a 5yr old Civic with low miles or a 2-3 yr old Altima(huge depreciation first couple of yrs).


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #327046 10/31/10 03:52 AM
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I would be doing that too, if I had the money.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327376 11/02/10 06:18 PM
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Anyways, while I'm at it, I'm currently replacing my kitchen floor, probably this weekend, (prepping it now), then install a door leading downstairs to the new proposed HT room. Need to keep the cat out of my workspace sometimes. In the meantime, I'm purchasing ceramic floor tile for the Fireplace side of the room. Will pick up the last 2 boxes of it I need this evening.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327388 11/02/10 07:36 PM
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327476 11/03/10 08:11 PM
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327941 11/10/10 01:06 AM
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As I was taking pictures of my fireplace, and thinking about how I was going to give it a facelift, I discovered that my cat has hypnotic eyes that flash messages to my brain, telling me things like, "You will feed me big fish", "You will pet me until your hands are raw", "No, you cannot leave the house for many naps at a time, but must stay home and do MY bidding." "Ha ha ha ha".



Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #327967 11/10/10 11:21 AM
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Actually, when I bring that image into Photoshop and read the embedded image data, it reads "My plan to have lots of things break to ruin you financially was only partially successful. I will kill you in your sleep before the year is out".


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #327980 11/10/10 04:37 PM
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You know, I think you may be right. Maybe I should drink poison in order to thwart her plans. sick

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328149 11/12/10 04:11 AM
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What I've been up to lately. Here's a picture of my kitchen floor. I've removed a broken dishwasher and pushed the fridge out of the way. So far, I've removed the bumpy areas in the plywood subfloor and reset the nails. Now I've applied 2 gallons of pre-mixed leveler to the floor. I've still got a little ways to go yet. I've tried sanding it but not having a lot of luck. I think I'm going to have to buy a belt sander with some really course grit and do it that way. Once this leveler dries, it's as solid as concrete.

It's called Henry 345 premixed patch and level. When I removed the old vinyl tiles, the plywood shredded in several spots which created some bad low spots. This leveler seems to fill them up and work just fine. When I'm done, I'm going to install new sheet vinyl in a 12 x 12 foot piece that I ordered and should have next Monday. I didn't want to use 1/4 inch underlayment because I want the new vinyl to fit up snug and level to the hardwood floor that's already there, like the vinyl tiles used to do.



Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328188 11/12/10 03:58 PM
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Any recommendations on a belt sander? I was looking at the $50 to $70 range, but I think I probably need to up that to the $200 to $300 range to get one that will do the job and have enough oomph left over to not be totally trashed by the time I'm done.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328198 11/12/10 06:14 PM
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For doing serious mat'l removal like levelling a floor I'd look at something with 10+ amps. If you think you might want to use the sander on some "finer" work in the future, you might also want to consider a VS(variable speed) sander. I bought myself a Makita 7.8amp sander a few years ago to level some heaves in my floor before installing hardwood but I should have got the 11amp model as the 7.8 , though reliable, was underpowered for such work imo. I would think any of the brand names should track well, but it seems like Bosch, Porter Cable and Makita get the better overall reviews from what I've seen. I believe Bosch might also make belt sanders for Sears so you might check some of the Craftsmans out too. Anyway, look for something with extra power....ARR...ARR...ARR!!


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328204 11/12/10 06:56 PM
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So far, just from seeing what's in nearby stores and the internet, the Portercable 362 with 4x24 and 12 amp looks good, but I haven't seen one in the stores yet, just Amazon. I'd rather buy locally, probably Sears will be my next stop and see what they've got. I'm not real fond of Sears because of poor quality stuff I've bought in the past for good quality prices.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328205 11/12/10 07:01 PM
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I don't normally like Craftsman products myself but if their sanders are indeed made by Bosch, they should be decent.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328211 11/12/10 07:49 PM
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For floor work like that I think I would rent a big drum sander like they use to strip down hardwood floors, much faster and easier on the back.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #328216 11/12/10 07:54 PM
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Jst don't leave it running while you make yourself a coffee....


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Maybe, but this stuff is so thin, and the plywood shreds so easily, that I'm afraid it could also make a big irreparable mess in a hurry.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328220 11/12/10 07:57 PM
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If the plywood shreds easily I am thinking it should be replaced as well.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #328223 11/12/10 08:02 PM
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You could lay down some 1/8" luan plywood over the old floor via narrow crown stapler, and if required just get a 1/8 offset T-mold transition into the adjoining room if the height is off. Imo, even if the two floors in each room are level with each other, I'd use a transition strip between them to finish the room off nicely.


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Adrian #328227 11/12/10 08:08 PM
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Possibly, but I'm going with the original plan first, which is to meet the vinyl flooring with the hardwood floor without a transition strip. There will be strong double sided tape which was made for this purpose, holding it down. The underlayment will be a last resort.

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jakewash #328228 11/12/10 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: jakewash
If the plywood shreds easily I am thinking it should be replaced as well.


Good idea, if I didn't have to rip out all of the kitchen cabinets first.

This leveler I'm using, although not easy to apply, is made for this purpose and seals the plywood up good and tight.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328238 11/12/10 09:28 PM
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Seals it up but it doesn't take away the fact the plywood is possibly getting rotten.

Whats a few cabinets and it's only the lowers wink

Good luck with this part of your rebuild, looking forward to more pics of your progress.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #328240 11/12/10 09:33 PM
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Plywood feels sturdy enough. I don't think it's rotten, but it is old. Off with the cabinets also means off with some wall tile, and the sink and the stove and the oven. You get the picture. This is supposed to be a floor project, not a complete kitchen re-do. The shorter I can keep this project the quicker I can get the downstairs room redone and the quicker I can have a dedicated HT room. grin

And the reason I'm doing the kitchen floor first is because, other than the floor being ancient, is I want the floor, then a door to keep the cat out of my construction area during non-cat critical moments. She's already getting tired of "Kitty Jail" when I'm working on the kitchen floor, and waiting for it to dry.

Last edited by CatBrat; 11/12/10 09:37 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328245 11/12/10 09:58 PM
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Plus, you might as well hurry and and get the job done before Kitty kills you in your sleep.

Kitty Kills would be an awesome name for a band...or a James Bond nemesis.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328249 11/12/10 10:08 PM
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It would definitely be a girl group.


Or maybe a German techno band with a DJ named Helmut.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328253 11/12/10 10:13 PM
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I was thinking Japanese Girl Group, to be specific.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328383 11/13/10 08:55 PM
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I've been searching stores for a decent belt sander. Hardware stores only sell the toy versions. Lumber and hardware stores like Lowes and Home Depot sell the toy up to almost a tool versions. And tool stores don't sell woodworking tools anymore because they are a poor seller. Sheesh. I many have to order one on-line but if it breaks under warranty, I'm not sure I'd get a fair deal that way.

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If it's an accredited dealer you shouldn't have a problem with ordering online, just like audio equip't. Did you decide on which belt sander you want to get?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328391 11/13/10 10:26 PM
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Not yet. A knowledgeable friend of mine said I should get a Milwaukee. I was wanting one with a 4 inch belt. When I check on-line, it doesn't look like Milwaukee even makes sanders anymore. He said to avoid Black & Decker and DeWalt. I don't like Craftsman products, but Sears does have a 4 inch with 11 amp motor for $199 that has good reviews. But the reviews are very limited, almost like they were hand picked.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328397 11/13/10 11:01 PM
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Milwaukee makes some good quality tools for sure. You're talking about the Milwaukee 4x24 Belt Sander #5936 which doesn't seem to be on M's website anymore so I guess it's no longer available.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328398 11/13/10 11:02 PM
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I bought a big ass, HEAVY Craftsman for a specific project that never materialized. I would recommend it for heavy duty need, but man, it's the heaviest "hand" power tool I own by a long shot!


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328399 11/13/10 11:11 PM
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It's this one and now that I lift it up, it's not quite as heavy as I remember.

Or, I've gotten stronger.

Either way, I can recommend it, though I haven't exactly beat on mine. (Notice! Straight Line Alert!).

I was going to be building a 12' indoor "suspension bridge" with it, and I really would have given it very heavy use on that one project. But, as mentioned above, it never happened.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328400 11/13/10 11:14 PM
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I remember that two of the negatives for the Craftsman belt sanders was you couldn't hook a shop vac up to the bag catcher output, and it didn't come with a storage case.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328401 11/13/10 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

That's the one I'm looking at.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328402 11/13/10 11:19 PM
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Mark, do you know who makes Craftsmans bigger sanders? Bosch?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328404 11/13/10 11:53 PM
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I have no idea. I honestly didn't research it terribly well when I bought it!


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328405 11/13/10 11:55 PM
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Sears has them reconditioned also.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328406 11/13/10 11:57 PM
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Googling "manufacturer of Craftsman Belt sanders" didn't help....


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328407 11/14/10 12:16 AM
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Their smaller belt sander looks a little like a Ryobi, but Ryobi doesn't make anything over 5.3amps by the look of it. A couple of years back when I was doing some research on them, I'm pretty sure that "Bosch" came up as a manufacturer of the larger units, probably yours(no jokes about having a large unit, please).


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328410 11/14/10 02:45 AM
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Roxanne and Bill were surprised to hear a knock at the door.
"Expecting someone?" purred Roxanne.
"Not that I know of".
Roxanne pulled the sheet up to cover her as Bill grabbed a towel. "I'll see". His tone implied he was annoyed at the interruption.
Bill opened the door to find a middle aged, pudgy man. "I'm taller than this guy. I could take him if it came down to it" Bill thought.
"Can I help you?" he asked instead.
"I'm Mark. Roxanne called me earlier. I brought my sander, and I was told I have a larger unit".

Boom chicken - cow - cow.....Boom chicken - cow - cow.....


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328411 11/14/10 02:53 AM
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Alas, poor Roxanne was led to believe that his larger unit was an orbital vibrating sander, not a belted one.....


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328423 11/14/10 04:29 AM
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I asked the salesman at Sears today who made the sander, and if it was a Bosch. He said not a Bosch, and that it was just a Craftman, no other manufacturer. Hmmm. I don't know.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328434 11/14/10 06:22 AM
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My experience has been that many Craftsman products are made by B&D but more towards Dewalt durability standards, actually better than in some instances. I have the 4" Craftsman belt sander and the only problem I notice is that the 4" belt is hard to find anywhere else except Sears. The lack of storage case and not being able to attach a vacuum are not a big deal to me, as long as the tool works. You most likely could attach a vacuum by making an adapter yourself.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #328438 11/14/10 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: jakewash
You most likely could attach a vacuum by making an adapter yourself.

That's what I did.

I just wish they would standardize dust ports, but that's a topic for the "Got Wood" thread.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #328442 11/14/10 01:27 PM
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I'm finding the 4 inch belts everywhere I find the 3 inch belts, even where they don't sell the 4 inch sanders. Sears sells the B&D Dragster sander under the Craftsman name. I know not to buy this piece of crap. Today, I'm going to go and turn over some more rocks (shopping) and see what's swarming under them.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328454 11/14/10 06:37 PM
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Well, I bought the Makita 9404 belt sander today for $219. It looks like a good one.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328455 11/14/10 07:36 PM
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After doing a 3' x 3' area, with 80 grit paper, I'm thinking I need a bigger unit (this one is 8.8 amp), or courser sand paper, or both. Putting any pressure at all on it bogs the motor down. It's making the underlayment smooth, but taking way too long. Well, off to the store for some more sandpaper.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328456 11/14/10 08:55 PM
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36 grit paper works most effectively, but it doesn't take long for the effectiveness of it to go away. This leveler stuff is like sanding concrete.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #328477 11/15/10 03:36 AM
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Sanding the crowns in my floor(OSB) took a while with my 7.8amp Makita, I can imagine that leveller stuff will take even longer. Let the sander do the work, all you're supposed to do is guide the tool. I tend to prefer Norton sanding abrasives myself, good quality.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #328494 11/15/10 02:48 PM
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I took my time with a lot of breaks and got about 3/4 of the way done. I got good results with 36 grit paper. I was using the light blue colored stuff. It seems to hold up good. I'm not experienced with one of these and made a few boo-boo's where I sanded in one spot too long and took it all the way down to wood. I'll have to redo those spots. The kitchen cabinets have a ledge along the edge that the sander won't reach. I'm not sure how I'm going to sand those yet. The ledge is about 3 inches off the floor and about 2 1/2 inches back. It won't be too critical, since no one will be walking on those spots. I guess I could just put a little more leveler up to that spot, sort of like a miniature ramp.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329111 11/21/10 04:09 AM
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Well, my kitchen floor is just about ready for the vinyl. I took this floor down to plywood and have applied about 2 1/2 gallons of leveler to it and sanded it. I bought a little corner and detail sander for the edges that the belt sander couldn't reach and I'm still working on that. I'll have to check it and see if anymore areas need work.

Unfortunately, I had an oops moment and the power cord got caught up in the sander at the backside where the sandpaper goes back up into the sander. It's wedged up there really tight and can't be pulled out. Oops. I took it to a repair shop and they said it may take up to 2 weeks to get it fixed.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329116 11/21/10 04:28 AM
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Hope you used a respirator when using your belt sander there. I should have mentioned that before you started.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #329117 11/21/10 04:29 AM
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Yep. I used respirator, ear protection headset, and knee pads.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #329149 11/21/10 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Adrian
I should have mentioned that before you started.

LOL...


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #329235 11/22/10 03:33 AM
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Kitchen floor is all done now. Except buying and installing trim pieces. Then add a door there in the upper left of picture that leads downstairs to my future HT room.

My camera adds a green tint to this floor, but actually it's brown and beige.

Last edited by CatBrat; 11/22/10 03:35 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329236 11/22/10 03:35 AM
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Looks good, Brian!


ummm....maybe I should have mentioned to use a respirator for the vinyl adhesive before you started.... laugh

Last edited by Adrian; 11/22/10 03:37 AM. Reason: saw an opportunity for a joke

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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #329239 11/22/10 03:40 AM
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Looks great Brian.


Jason
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329246 11/22/10 04:29 AM
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That's an impressive amount of work for a few days.

I'd still be researching the sander. Trying to find the appropriate mathematical model to simulate the belt/floor interaction.


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-Chris
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
ClubNeon #329363 11/23/10 02:57 AM
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It's been a while since I've taken a picture of my living room HT, I added it to my signature line and just wanted to see what it looked like here.



This setup creates a unique wall-of-sound that I really like.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329378 11/23/10 07:16 AM
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I bet that it sounds pretty good

Reminiscent of my wall of sound:




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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #329387 11/23/10 12:53 PM
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Talk about impressive. I take it that the M22's are the surrounds in this picture? or, are the M80 and the M22 running on the same channel? I have my 2 sets of M22 on the same channels. Each pair has speaker wire that is terminated in banana plugs, with one set of plugs plugged into the other set.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329403 11/23/10 04:13 PM
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That is why I run banana plugs with my set ups, just to try out different pairings etc. very easily.

My M22's and VP150 were mostly there just to eat up space during that picture but I did eventually run the M22's with the M80s and the M60 was my center which I did run with the Vp150 just to see how all this speakage sounded. It was too much for my little space and with all that height everything just hit you like wall. It was from all of this testing that I decided a vertical center really was a much better way to go. I still prefer the M60 look to the M80's.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #329405 11/23/10 04:51 PM
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One thing I noticed during initial testing with 2 sets of L/R is that they must be vertically aligned. Yours aren't in this picture. Not vertically aligning them produces an unpleasant effect.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329410 11/23/10 05:12 PM
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Yup, you figured out the key.

I did eventually move the M22's onto the M80s and I previously used the M60s with the M22s on top which sounded VERY good.


Jason
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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329413 11/23/10 05:39 PM
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Nice job on the floor, Brian. I am a flooring installer myself, i wish I would have seen this post earlier.

What I do,(27 years practice)is I float the floor with the Mapei floor leveler with the additive(watered down white glue)and then just scrape the high spots with a 14" trowel. Keep doing this until the floor is like glass,it may take two or three coats but it dries fairly fast.

You can also accelerate the drying time by putting a fan in the doorway,facing up to the ceiling for air movement.Don't put the fan directly on the floor because the leveler will dry too fast and crack.

I would never use a belt sander because you will get a wavy floor.

Shawn

Last edited by SBrown; 11/23/10 05:39 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
SBrown #329418 11/23/10 06:41 PM
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I did get a slightly wavy floor, btw. I can feel it when I walk barefoot on it. I was going to sand a little more, until my sander needed repair (I get the sander back tomorrow, cost $20 to remove the cord from being stuck.) I can live with it for now. Sometime in the future, I may pull the vinyl back up and finish the job.

About using that particular leveler, it might not have worked in my situation. The subfloor is old plywood, that I didn't want to replace because I didn't want to remove all of the cabinets, and everything that's connected to them. The old vinyl tiles that I removed was most likely glued down with some asbestos infested black goo. I removed this using a mall (Long pole with a blade at the end at a 90 degree angle to pole). At several spots, some plywood particles came up attached to the vinyl, exposing the inside of the plywood. The leveler I used filled up these gaps quite well without causing the plywood to warp. I also didn't want to add another layer of plywood, so I can have a seamless floor where the vinyl meets a hardwood floor.

Last edited by CatBrat; 11/23/10 06:47 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329419 11/23/10 06:52 PM
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Did you run the cord over? I always joke with my customers when I'm doing their vinyl flooring...I tell them I'm a plastic surgeon! laugh

Yes that leveler would have worked fine,and the black glue is asphalt emulsion, so it is good you patched over it or it bleeds through the new material.

Last edited by SBrown; 11/23/10 06:56 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
SBrown #329421 11/23/10 06:55 PM
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Yeah. I ran it over a cord. I was being good about keeping the cord out of the way, and having it go over my shoulder right from the sander, so all of the cord is behind me, but I got a little careless and started sanding around where the cord was.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329496 11/24/10 08:43 PM
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Now that the VP180 comes in a cabinet version which makes it possible to mount in the wall, underneath my TV where the in/on-wall VP100 resides now. There is about 2 feet of in-wall space behind the VP100. I'm wondering how it would sound mixed with my M22's and EP350? (Click on my signature link to see picture.)

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329504 11/24/10 10:15 PM
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The VP180 was intended to compliment the M60/80s, but I would think it should match the M22s just as well since so many people have commented about the sonic similarities when comparing the M22+sub to M80s.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #329533 11/25/10 12:30 AM
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That's what I'm thinking for overall sound, but there may be a big difference when sounds pan across the screen. There is that problem now, only in the opposite direction. The VP100 doesn't produce as much bass as the M22's, leaving male vocals a little off. At least the VP180 would fix that problem. Since 95% of the vocals come out of the center channel, I think over all it would sound better than the VP100 with the M22's. The VP150 'might' be a closer match, but I think the VP180 would sound better overall.

I've got to pay my sister back $1100 that I've borrowed, then I'll think about getting a VP180. Worst case, I can send it back and exchange it for a VP150. Although, my poor wall will be ounching a bit from all the holes I've cut and repaired.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329953 11/30/10 10:44 PM
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Here's a website where I made some plans for the future of my room that got destroyed. I didn't get the measurements exactly yet, so it's approx. I don't like this method of posting a link to my drawing, but need better software for this that I can post to a forum. Also, it didn't have projector screen or speakers that I could place, so I just used an extra big TV to represent where the screen goes.

After going to this site, you then have to keep centering the picture and making it bigger. There's also a 2d and 3d button on the upper right.

I've tried the google drawing tools, but never could figure it out good enough to do this room with it.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329961 12/01/10 12:30 AM
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Here's the same thing, only with more exact dimensions. I'm somewhat forced to put the divider wall where I have it, because there's a pole in the middle of the wall about even with the backs of the chairs. Also, the door leading into the theater room needs to swing into the room, because there's an steel beam and heater ducts on the fireplace side that would limit the height of the door to 6 foot. Also I don't like the idea of the door opening and pointing to the bottom of the stairs. That's an accident waiting to happen.

The wall across from the fireplace might be a good place to hang a few movie posters. Not sure where to put the popcorn machine. The alcove beside the bathroom is where I want to put a stack of shelves on wheels that will hold the AV equipment. There's a floor drain at the back of this alcove, that used to be for a shower. I may have to level this floor a bit with a sheet of plywood, cutting out a hole with a 2nd floor drain mounted in the plywood.

The ceiling is only 7 foot high. On AVSforum, I saw another HT with 7 foot ceiling where they built a small alcove next to the ceiling into the back wall. It would be easier if I could do this directly over the AV rack alcove, but it would be off center. Does the project have to be square with the center of the screen, or is there some adjustment that would allow you to place it off to one side? I'm thinking probably not.

I'm going to start a HT build on AVSforum, but am waiting to get a camera and better software for drawing first.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/01/10 12:59 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #329965 12/01/10 01:47 AM
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I've just started a thread on AVSforum. Here's a link to it.

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CatBrat #330063 12/01/10 09:04 PM
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Now here's a Home Theater Lighting Control Kit like I've been searching for. I put the link here to make it easier for me to find in the future.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #330269 12/03/10 09:15 PM
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My original plan.
Plan as modified by JC.

Use mouse wheel to zoom image.
Drag image with mouse to move it.
Click on 3D button for 3D view.



Last edited by CatBrat; 12/03/10 09:18 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #330308 12/04/10 04:30 AM
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Room plan with speakers added.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #330356 12/04/10 09:54 PM
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I bought a cheap digital camera today, and upgraded my signature picture. The colors look much better than the cell phone picture I had before. The wall color is no longer pink in the picture, but now it appears a peach color.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #330599 12/07/10 04:27 AM
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For anyone that's interested, I've added pictures of the floor with storm damage that is to become my HT room.

It's on avsforum.com at this location.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331204 12/11/10 02:26 PM
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I put this message on avsforum, but I thought I'd repeat it here. There might be someone here that can answer my question also.


This is the wall where I plan on mounting an AT screen with 3 speakers in the wall for L/C/R that are 15 or 18 inches deep, and 40 inches high. I'm not sure of the screen size yet, but I'm thinking of 8 foot wide with 2.35:1. The plywood that's nailed up there is 7 foot wide. I'm not sure if I should go wider, or not. I don't want a screen I'll regret later as too small, yet I don't want one too big either. The seating distance will only be about 10 foot.

I plan on removing this insulation and the drywall on the other side of this wall soon. Then moving some 2x6 studs to accommodate the speakers. Then drywall the garage side of the wall with a big hole in it that will allow the speakers to hang out the backside into the garage. (Later I'll build an insulated box around the backside of the speakers.) Note: These speakers are in-cabinet speakers and are designed to be mounted this way.

Link to speakers:
18 inch deep http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80-in-cabinet.html
15 inch deep http://www.axiomaudio.com/m60-in-cabinet.html

My question is, how far from the ceiling should I mount the screen?

The ceiling is 7 foot high. The projector (Panasonic PTAE4000U perhaps), will probably be mounted on a shelf, near the ceiling, about 13-14 feet back. Putting the screen closer to the ceiling will put the tweeters further up away from the ears, putting the screen down would seem to put your head closer, to the beam of light, perhaps in the beam of light. One possibility is to mount the speakers upside down.

I'm also thinking that the top of the screen might have to be level with the lens on the projector. If this is so, then the top of the screen would have to be mounted inches from the ceiling.

Any help in this area would be much appreciated. I have absolutely no experience with projectors and this is my first attempt to build a theater.

I need to know soon, so I will know where to put the hole for the speakers in the wall. Thanks in advance.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331211 12/11/10 05:08 PM
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Last edited by jakewash; 12/11/10 05:17 PM. Reason: added more links

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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #331215 12/11/10 06:45 PM
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A basic rule is the top edge of the screen can't be below the top edge of the projector's lens. But the projector doesn't have to be in the vertical center of the screen, as long as it has an optical shift (all good ones do).


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
ClubNeon #331222 12/11/10 09:23 PM
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I'm back from the HT store. I wanted to talk to the people there and view the screen they had again. They were pretty busy, but the most knowledgeable person spent some time with me.

From this trip I discovered the following:

1) I want a 120 inch diag. screen. I remeasured my wall and it was just under 11 feet at 127 inches. That's before double drywall and some insulation on the concrete wall. That leaves about 123 inches for screen and frame.

2) I want the screen a little higher than I had originally planned, because once in a theater seat that reclines, you will be looking up more than when just sitting straight.

3) I will probably have to mount the in-cabinet M80's upside down to put the tweeters more at ear level.

4) Epson sells a newer projector, model "9500 UB", for around $2,000. (Well, I looked it up and it isn't all that new).

5) I would need an anamorphic lens for a projector that can display 2.40:1, that starts out in price at $2000. I thought that the Panasonic PTAE4000U didn't need this lens, but from searching the internet the salesperson couldn't determine that while I was there. He said 2.40:1 is a more popular size today than 2.35:1.


Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331223 12/11/10 09:39 PM
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One more thing that I really liked about the HT room in the store I went to was the wall lights. They said that they used to use sconces like I was wanting, but they replaced them with something better. They built their own sound dampeners on the wall that were about 2 feet wide and 3 feet tall. They were framed like a picture. They stood out about 2 inches from the wall. They had some smaller framing on the wall side, where you couldn't see it that was about 5 inches smaller all around. then 2 rows of LCD rope light was wound around that inner area. This was attached to a dimmer switch.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331225 12/11/10 09:56 PM
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Thanks for the links, Jason. It's going to take me some time to go over these. I don't have Excel, so I can't use the calculator, though.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331226 12/11/10 10:06 PM
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Quote:

1) I want a screen that will fill the wall left to right. I remeasured my wall and it was just under 11 feet at 127 inches. That's before double drywall and some insulation on the concrete wall. That leaves about 123 inches for screen and frame.


Though some people prefer it I see no reason to sacrifice image height (constant image height (CIH)) of a native 1.78/1.85:1 or 1.33:1 picture to fit it on a 2.35/2.40:1 screen either by zooming the picture or using an anamorphic lens unless you are restricted by the height of the screen you can use. I chose to buy the widest screen I could fit on my wall which also turned out to be highest 1.78:1 or 16x9 I could use. That way I have the best of all worlds IMO by having the biggest image I can possibly have in any native format displayed the way it was produced.

Although when displaying 2.35/2.40:1 images I have horizontal “black bars” I can shift the image down to the bottom of my screen so that there is only one bar at the top and cover that area with DIY masking thus turning my 1.78:1 screen into a 2.35 or 2.40 screen. For 1.33:1 (4x3) I have vertical bars on each side of the screen but since this is typically TV (older) fare I don’t even bother masking it.

If you plan on only or mainly watching 2.35/2.40:1 movies then having a higher screen may not matter. However, if you plan on also watching a lot of 1.78/1.85:1 movies or 16x9 HDTV or video and computer games or 4x3 TV shows then IMO a 1.78:1 screen is the way to go especially since you already plan to go AT which means your speaker will fit behind it.

Quote:

5) I would need an anamorphic lens for a projector that can display 2.40:1, that starts out in price at $2000. I thought that the Panasonic PTAE4000U didn't need this lens, but from searching the internet the salesperson couldn't determine that while I was there. He said 2.40:1 is a more popular size today than 2.35:1

The PTAE4000 uses memorized zoom settings to scale an image to the screen size. This works well but does sacrifice image brightness when scaling from the native 16x9 resolution to any other resolution. Note that it also maintains the original image ratio so a 1.78:1 image displayed on a 2.40 screen will sill be 1.78 just much smaller in height and with “black” bars on the sides. An anamorphic lens will not sacrifice brightness and will stretch the image to fit the width of the screen but the height will still be smaller. Almost if not any projector can be manually zoomed in and out to fit any image to any size screen up to the limit of the screens width or height depending on the resolution of the image. The new Epson may also have the memorized presets now but I’m not sure.



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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
grunt #331229 12/11/10 10:22 PM
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Been doing some more measuring....

If I butt the 120 inch diag 2.35:1 screen in frame right up against the ceiling, that only leaves 30 inches of space under the screen. I doubt that I'd want the screen any lower than that.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331230 12/11/10 10:28 PM
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Nope probably not. It looked like the wall was taller when I first looked at the picture. wink


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
grunt #331244 12/12/10 02:47 AM
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I think having the picture right against the ceiling most likely isn't the best scenario either, possible reflections off the ceiling might be annoying.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #331247 12/12/10 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: jakewash
I think having the picture right against the ceiling most likely isn't the best scenario either, possible reflections off the ceiling might be annoying.


True. I'm going to paint the entire ceiling and the front (so many feet, but don't know yet), a flat black, so hopefully that won't be a problem. Each size screen smaller is 7 inches narrower and 3 inches shorter, so downsizing the screen size isn't helping much. By the time I get one with an extra foot of clearance at the top, it's a whole 28 inches narrower. Not a real good option.

It wouldn't be right on the ceiling, but close. The frame would be about 2 inches and I would mount the frame about 2 inches away, so there would be at least 4 inches between screen and ceiling. This is a problem going with a wide screen and only having 7 foot (minus about 3 inches for drywall and flooring) ceilings.

I think I've just about talked myself into installing Dri-Core subflooring, for 2 reasons. #1 reason is to help keep the floor warmer by putting another layer between you and the concrete, and #2 reason is to keep the floor dry, just in-case another leak develops in the wall sometime in the future. Not going to install it in the entire floor, just inside the HT room, leaving a small gap for ventilation and inspection around the parameter of the room.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/12/10 03:41 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331252 12/12/10 06:19 AM
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The dricore won't make the floor any warmer, because anything you put down for flooring will have some sort of thermal break between it and the floor ie. carpet underlay or laminate floor underlay which has a foam backing. It also won't cause any problems except for the added expense and the raising of the floor height in an already height challenged area. The dryness factor with your older house and previous issues makes it more of a requirement.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #331272 12/12/10 08:00 PM
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Cat, prior to totally overhauling my basement entertainment room, I did extensive research on installing a subfloor that would have an insulating factor. From all of the research I did, I found that this type of modular subfloor was the best option.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Ya_basta #331276 12/12/10 08:36 PM
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If only I had the room for both. Dri-core allows for better moisture management, but it's R-value is only 1.6. Barricade has an R-value of 3.2, but very little, if any moisture management capabilities.

It would seem to me that Dri-core with a good carpet pad and carpeting would be the best choice.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/12/10 08:37 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331277 12/12/10 08:59 PM
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Here's another idea. Heated floor mats that are designed to go under carpeting.

So, a layer of dri-core, then carpet pad, then heated floor mat, then carpet. But, not exactly a cheap way to go. May not have to do entire floor, but enough of the floor to allow the floor to radiate heat instead of coldness.

For my room 11 x 12, 2 of the 5.5 x 8 floor mats would pretty much cover it. Just leave a few feet unheated near the screen end. Cost $600.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/12/10 09:11 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #331280 12/12/10 09:58 PM
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There are different manufacturers of this type of moisture barrier, but I don't know if it could be laid underneath the Barricade modular floor system.

I also know that there is something similar to a carpet underpad that claims to give an R value of just over 1, but I couldn't find it when I searched for it. Something like that, along with the Dri-core modular floor would give you the same insulating value as the Barricade modular floor.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Ya_basta #332342 12/23/10 04:36 PM
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I know it really doesn't make much sense to put 7.1 in a room this small, but if I was going to do that, where would I put the 2 extra speakers. My thought would be to place them in the ceiling, just behind the seating area. Although I hate to cut into the ceiling and potentially weaken the soundproofing.

When 7.1 is played on a 5.1 system, what happens to the rear sound tracks? Do they get dropped, or do they get combined with the side surrounds?

This picture doesn't show it, but there's an EP800 sitting under the screen on it's side. (Speakers are overkill for this room, but at least I've got good sound. Just have to be sure the AVR has a max vol setting that's right for this room) 3 M80 in-cab behind screen and 2 QS8 behind seating position.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/23/10 04:42 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #332537 12/25/10 11:31 PM
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I've been hard at work sanding, staining, painting, etc to get this door installed in the kitchen at the top of the stairs to my future HT room to keep the cat out of my work when I don't want her there. I finally got it done.



Before picture.



Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #332754 12/29/10 06:16 PM
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A friend gave me $100 gift card for Best Buy, so I bought these 5 BD for an average of $20 each.

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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #332847 12/30/10 06:52 PM
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Just a thought. To go from 5.1 to a 7.1 system in this small room of mine, (Why? Because I can), I thought about sometime buying some in-ceiling speakers that pointed down behind the seating position, then I started wondering about the in-wall M2's. Don't know if anyone has mounted the in-wall M2's in a ceiling before. If so, how does that work for you?

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #332849 12/30/10 06:57 PM
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The difference you'll find between good in-ceiling speakers, and in-wall speakers is that the in-ceiling either have provisions to aim the tweeter, or at least have the tweeter mounted at an angle. The in-wall speaker will fire the tweeter straight down.

I wouldn't bother with in-ceiling speakers—it is too much of a design compromise. If I were forced to bother with in-ceiling speakers, I'd get ones designed for the task—to be the least compromised.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
ClubNeon #332855 12/30/10 07:14 PM
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Ok, I was concerned about timbre matching when introducing a different brand. They probably would only be mounted about 2-3 feet behind your head, so there would be little off-axis listening involved.

Edit: About equi-distance with the side surrounds, except sound would be coming from above/behind, instead of directly behind.

Last edited by CatBrat; 12/30/10 07:16 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #332860 12/30/10 07:54 PM
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Paradigm in-ceiling speakers might be an option, though I'm not sure on the $$, to timbre match the Axioms. In a 7.1 as rears though, I wouldn't think timbre matching is anywhere near as important as the fronts/centre.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Adrian #332863 12/30/10 07:57 PM
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THere's going to be a large perceived timbre shift from having the speakers above your head anyway.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
ClubNeon #333312 01/03/11 07:10 PM
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Every now-and-then an opportunity comes by that's just too good to pass up. That's how it was with this California King size bed by Stearns & Foster. JCPenney's has it for $2600. The MSRP is $6000. There's a new damaged item store by me that had this for $500 including delivery. I couldn't pass it by for that. The only damage is an occasional smudge on the sides. I lost my bed 8 years ago and never replaced it until now. The only problem is my acid reflux problem keeps me from sleeping in it. (Stomach acid finds it's way to my mouth after laying flat for about 3 hours). So, I've been sleeping in a recliner the past 8 years. I think if I prop the head a few inches and get one of those wedge shaped things to sleep on, it might work for me.

I had a little trouble keeping the model from jumping off the bed while I took the picture.



Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #333330 01/03/11 09:07 PM
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Nice deal!

Re the acid reflux, have you tried sleeping on your left side? That should position the connection between your esophagus and your stomach above the stomach acid.



Re: Storm damage to HT room?
pmbuko #333331 01/03/11 09:11 PM
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I usually toss and turn all night and I'm not couscous of what I'm doing. I'm a really sound sleeper, and I snore loudly, or so I've been told. I wake up with a dry mouth all the time.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #333337 01/03/11 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I usually toss and turn all night and I'm not couscous of what I'm doing.

Going to bed on a full stomach, even if it's just couscous, will cause problems.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #333339 01/03/11 09:48 PM
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OH! Tainted love...


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
MarkSJohnson #333361 01/04/11 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I usually toss and turn all night and I'm not couscous of what I'm doing.

Going to bed on a full stomach, even if it's just couscous, will cause problems.


Gotta love that spelling checker.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #333369 01/04/11 05:21 AM
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Not that it matters, but I believe that it was Macy's that had the bed at $2600. Not JCPenney's like I had previously said.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #333467 01/05/11 02:10 AM
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I've been studying dead vents today. It looks like I could add one to the rear center of the HT room, about a foot shy of the ceiling so a projector can be placed on top of it. A vent either high or low in the HT room, with the other end venting towards the HT door on the outside of the room. Perhaps it could be wired so the built in fan would come on/off with the furnace fan, with a bypass switch that would allow you to either add or expel air at will, or to shut it off. I don't know if that's possible or not, but it seems like it should be.

At least that should solve my problem of how to get an HVAC return installed.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #333493 01/05/11 10:52 AM
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Nice sketches, looking good.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
jakewash #334961 01/19/11 08:09 PM
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I'm copying some thoughts I wrote in a different thread to here where it belongs to help me with my thoughts, plans.

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Suppose that you have a 10 foot wide 2.40:1 AT screen. I was wondering about if you used 5 in-cabinet M80 behind the screen where it was LW/L/space/C/space/R/RW. Also assume that there is only a couple inches of free space between the screen and the wall, so no speaker could be placed on the front wall outside of the screen. Would this be a good way to do this, or would the wides and mains be too close together? The Wides and L/R would be next to each other, one on each side of a stud.


Here's an interesting layout for 11.1 from the Audyssey.com site:


Using M80s as wide speakers would IMO be a waste of money. M2 speakers work just as well as there is really no significant bass going to the wide speakers. I even swapped out my M22s wides for a pair of M2s and can’t tell the difference.

As for speaker separation I would use this as a starting point.

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html

Placing your wide speakers close to your mains wouldn't help much if at all. It might also cause interference as the mains and their corresponding wide speakers share a lot of the same audio information in the midrange and up.

Also note that if your main speakers are farther off center than 30 degrees, say closer to 45 degrees then wide speakers don’t help much either. Unless for some reason your surround speakers are way behind your seating.

My screen is 9’8” wide and I have my L/R mains placed to the far left and right so that the front soundstage corresponds to the on screen action perfectly . . . well at least when its well mastered to match the on screen action. The wides mostly fill in the front sides with ambient sounds like crowd, office, machinery and other noises that would fill an area. Occasionally they also enhance hard pans coming from or going offstage in either direction. On well mastered audio tracks there are often voices coming from off stage L/R when a character off screen is talking. However I find this most in video games and anime titles, only a few movies are mastered to where you hear things coming from off to the left or right. Some Star Wars and the LOTR movies come to mind.


Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Yeah, that's good for perfect room conditions, but mine is screen from wall to wall. So, I guess that you are saying that it wouldn't benefit me, and could possibly make the sound worse. If I did go this route, then I should only use M2s. If I did do this, then possibly, putting M2s in the lower corners of the screen for Wides and M2s in the higher corners of the screen for Heights might actually work? There would only be a few inches between screen and ceiling also, so no room outside the screen boundary for heights.

Just making plans on where to run wires and mount speakers.

Kind of like this:


Also, could use QS8 for heights mounted in the same upper corner spots shown.


Originally Posted By: grunt
My screen also takes up almost all of the wall. There is no room or even place to mount wide speakers on my front wall which is why they are on my side walls. Unless you don’t have the room on the sides or just don’t like the look maintaining the angle is more important than which wall the speakers are on. That’s another reason I prefer the M2s even to the M22s is they aren’t obtrusive hanging off the front side walls.

If you have multiple rows of seating that are far enough apart you could even try using double surrounds and or double wides, one set for each row. Sort of like theaters have multiple speakers along the walls.


Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Only 1 row of 3 seats. It's a small theater. About 11' wide by 13-15' feet deep by 6'9" high. I think I'll plan on my layout I have above for now. All speakers will be pointed straight forward. Using M2's for wide and QS8's for heights. It may not be optimum, but at least I can take advantage of all channels and be future proofed for a little while.

I plan on QS8 for surround left and right slightly behind head position and with in ceiling mounted for rears because there won't be a rear wall that can work and I need to conserve space.

All of the above should provide an ample surround sound experience.

Edit: As an afterthought, I could leave the M2 where I had planned in the lower corners of the screen, only aim them at the side walls, bouncing the sound off of the side walls, creating a wider effect. (Or find a speaker that may be more designed for this).


Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #334972 01/19/11 08:49 PM
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Here's my adjusted idea, where the LW points to the left wall and the RW points to the right wall.



This would cause the sound field of the wides and the heights to go through the sound fields of the mains. I wonder if this would distort the sound of the mains in any way?

Another new thought. Perhaps in-cabinet VP180 mounted vertically, might be better than in-cabinet M80's? this would focus the tweeters at the middle of the screen closer to ear level than near the ceiling, or upside down and closer to your stomach.



Alan recently said that 3 vertical vp150's sounded good, so perhaps 3 vertical vp180's would sound as good as M80's??? And perhaps better in this scenario. Would probably have to baffle the ports to keep them from vibrating the screen, by mounting a deflector a couple inches away from the ports.

Last edited by CatBrat; 01/19/11 09:15 PM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #334976 01/19/11 09:53 PM
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Why not just use M80s vertically? VP180s are designed for horizontal dispersion, M80s are designed for vertical dispersion. Also, why are you putting the wides inside the mains, again?


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
Ken.C #334991 01/19/11 11:57 PM
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I haven't really calculated out where my head will be in relation to the screen, but with an approx 6'8" or 6'9" ceiling, and a 2.40:1 screen from wall to wall, I'm assuming head will be somewhere in the range of +/- 20% from center of screen. That being the case, the VP180 would be more centralized with the ears. Whereas, with the M80, you're ears would probably be aligned about with the lower midrange speaker, with all the tweeters near the ceilling. Upside down, the ears would still be inline with a mid range with the woofers near the ceiling. The VP180 just seems more of a balanced situation. Since Alan said that the vertical VP150's sounded good, I'm just assuming vertical VP180's would also sound good. Perhaps even better when the ear is near the center. There is not a lot of off axis issues that I can see, but I might be wrong. I could possibly toe in the mains just a little bit, but I'd rather not.

The reason the wides are where they are is so I can point them at the wall at an angle that will reflect to the center seated position. It will be easier to point and get a wider reflected dispersion if they are not so close to the wall. Also, if placed near the edge of the screen and pointed at the wall, the edge of the screen will get in the way.

Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #334998 01/20/11 12:53 AM
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on my 10ft wide 2.35 screen, my eyes are near the bottom of the screen in the first row and about 1/3 of the way up in the second row, which was the recommendation by many AVS forum members.


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Re: Storm damage to HT room?
SirQuack #335004 01/20/11 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: sirquack
on my 10ft wide 2.35 screen, my eyes are near the bottom of the screen in the first row and about 1/3 of the way up in the second row, which was the recommendation by many AVS forum members.

How far is the bottom and top of your screen from the floor? Not measuring the frame.

Mine will be about 28 inches from floor to a height of 78 inches. Sitting in a recliner puts my eyes at 40 inches. This puts 21 inches below eyes and 38 inches above eyes, so, I guess that's a little more than 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen.

According to these measurements, your screen will have to be about 40 inches from floor and 90 inches to top of screen. 90 inches = 7'5", about a foot more than I have available.

If you sat 10 foot from this screen, and lowered your screen 1 foot. It would be exactly what I am looking at. Do you think this would be doable?

Forget about the 2nd row. I won't have one. I may even only do 1 row of 2 theater seats, with ability to put a portable, or chairs on rollers at either side, and behind, if needed. Majority of viewing is either alone or with one other.

Last edited by CatBrat; 01/20/11 03:09 AM.
Re: Storm damage to HT room?
CatBrat #335575 01/25/11 02:56 AM
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I think when I order my M2 center channel, I'll get a real wood finish this time to see if I like it better than the vinyl. I had my EP350 made in Cinnamon Beech vinyl. It looks like the closest match to that in the real wood would be Cinnamon Oak. I'll get the simi-gloss instead of the satin since it doesn't cost any extra.

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