 SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
old hand
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92 |
Just wondering if anyone has ventured over to the SVS site as I know they have launched their new AMPS with DSP to replace the aging BASH amps they previously had. I bring it up and also open this to Alan or Ian to see if DSP is something they plan on integrating into their amps in the future as well. The latest PB12-Plus is a revolutionary leap forward thanks to nearly 300 watts more power than older amps provided, and fine tuning only powerful Analog Devices™ digital signal processors could achieve. New frequency response charts tell the tale here.
Borrowing liberally from its phenomenally successful big brother, the PB13-Ultra, we've kept the latest features in this PB12-Plus, like proprietary free-breathing port flares, and added digital parametric EQ, and even variable pro-grade XLR inputs.
No surprise it rivals the previous generation PB13-Ultra in performance too. Of course that line gets its own new Sledge STA-1000D amp to maintain its edge in our big Powered Box lineup.
So even before you switch it on the PB12-Plus is clearly something different. Tap into depth, low-distortion power, and naturally flat bass response that upholds the SVS legend. With our fifth-generation "Plus" woofer and and that cutting-edge Sledge™ amp you are served an unprecedented combination of performance all still at a rational price. 300 more watts seems like a lot to add to an already acknowledged product?
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210 |
Axiom's EP350 through EP800 subs already have DSP.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92 |
Rick,
Thanks, kinda makes me feel like a donkey for not knowing that. With that being said, is this the way of the future? I ask because i own an older BASH style amp for my SVS sub and within the next year will be adding a 2nd sub.
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
I think DSP is the wave of the future only because too many people(general public now seeing it in stores) see it as the end all, be all of sub performance as it tends to be advertised this way. DSP also helps keep subs from being destroyed due to user error or abuse, this is a good thing from a manufacturer's point of view.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210 |
I thought the newer EP350s had DSP, is the spec sheet correct in that the EP350 doesn't have the DSP?
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
Right. AFAIK the EP350 does have a new and more powerful amp, but does not include a DSP.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015 |
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441 |
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928 |
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
The SVS wordsmiths do an admirable job.
And the products seem to be quite good (I own an old PB12-NSD).
But "sledge" is pure marketing, and they are making those amps in Asia. Buzzkill for me.
DSP seems like a good idea, though.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
DSP is an excuse to raise prices and a good marketing ploy on their behalf.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 533
aficionado
|
|
aficionado
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 533 |
Hi Nashvegas Rocks,
Axiom pioneered the use of DSP for subwoofer amplifiers many years ago. Competitors are now trying to implement it in their products; playing the catch up game.
The hardware for the DSP is easy to find but the software needed to allow the DSP technology to improve the overall performanec of the subwoofer is a diffrent story. Axiom has created its software and has been refining it for many years. It takes a lot of scientific research and extentive testing requiring uniqe skill, know how, elaborate equipment and more. Not many companies, including subwoofer companies, posses and master them as Axiom does.
Last edited by Jc; 10/13/10 02:00 PM.
jc
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 678
aficionado
|
|
aficionado
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 678 |
Hi Nashvegas Rocks,
Axiom pioneered the use of DSP for subwoofer amplifiers many years ago. Competitors are now trying to implement it in their products; playing the catch up game.
The hardware for the DSP is easy to find but the software needed to allow the DSP technology to improve the overall performanec of the subwoofer is a diffrent story. Axiom has created its software and has been refining it for many years. It takes a lot of scientific research and extentive testing requiring uniqe skill, know how, elaborate equipment and more. Not many companies, including subwoofer companies, posses and master them as Axiom does. Thanks for the explanation! I just know that it sounds great in my EP600.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
Just wondering if anyone has ventured over to the SVS site as I know they have launched their new AMPS with DSP to replace the aging BASH amps they previously had. I bring it up and also open this to Alan or Ian to see if DSP is something they plan on integrating into their amps in the future as well. The latest PB12-Plus is a revolutionary leap forward thanks to nearly 300 watts more power than older amps provided, and fine tuning only powerful Analog Devices™ digital signal processors could achieve. New frequency response charts tell the tale here.
Borrowing liberally from its phenomenally successful big brother, the PB13-Ultra, we've kept the latest features in this PB12-Plus, like proprietary free-breathing port flares, and added digital parametric EQ, and even variable pro-grade XLR inputs.
No surprise it rivals the previous generation PB13-Ultra in performance too. Of course that line gets its own new Sledge STA-1000D amp to maintain its edge in our big Powered Box lineup.
So even before you switch it on the PB12-Plus is clearly something different. Tap into depth, low-distortion power, and naturally flat bass response that upholds the SVS legend. With our fifth-generation "Plus" woofer and and that cutting-edge Sledge™ amp you are served an unprecedented combination of performance all still at a rational price. 300 more watts seems like a lot to add to an already acknowledged product? It depends if there have been trade-offs within the design. For example if using a less expensive, less capable driver and compensating with DSP. Change the driver and all bets are off. A driver that is not as sensitive among other specifications for example, 300 more watts of power might not add much. So it really depends on the design choices made. Do you know if there have been any other running changes to their lineup of subs besides DSP and a greater feature set in the amp section?
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110 |
I don't think DSP controlled products are a "marketing ploy". I would say that it is an inevitable "improvement". They are a class of devices that allow the manufacturers more control over the performance characteristics of their products.
M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
DSP controlled subwoofers can make improvements and like you said do give manufacturers more control but so does using better quality components like the driver itself. The degree of its benefits depends on other components involved in the design though. DSP or lack there of is not a deal maker or breaker for me personally. The overall design is whats important.
When it comes to commercial subwoofers and with the added cost of DSP technology, I wouldn't put it past manufactures to make trade-offs in other areas of the design to hit their market price points. All I am trying to point out is a subwoofer that has DSP technology involved is not necessarily better than a non-dsp controlled sub and vice-versa.
DSP technology does have a lot of marketing appeal with consumers as selling point over other components in the design like the quality of the driver and cabinet which all have an affect on the overall performance.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Gotta agree with Dr. House here; a subwoofer is a system to produce certain frequencies, and there are technical and budgetary design decisions to be made throughout the process. It's the end result that matters, not the inclusion of a certain chip.
I should think that ANY useful subwoofer DSP would necessarily be very closely integrated with a specific driver (and enclosure, and amp...). I like JC's observation about software - even if you're using the same DSP chip, you'd need different DSP algorithms for each change in the other variables.
It kind of reminds me of the great Audyssey debate. Sure, equalizing your speakers to suit your room seems like a good idea, but - in practice - many folks feel it does more harm than good. Something does not become inherently ennobled (or "better") because a new technology has been applied to it; either the technology itself or its specific implementation could render the resulting human experience unsatisfactory.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110 |
I totally agree that adding a "feature" to a device does not necessarily make it better. It all still comes down to quality of the total product, which includes, components, design and these days, software.
One prime example in the R/C heli world are the electronic speed controllers (ESC) used. Kontronik (based in Germany) has been the hands down leader in this respect for years. Their products just work extremely well with very little tweaking. However, there is a very large price premium. Castle Creations (USA) makes some pretty nice ESCs for about 1/3 the price but they are heavier, larger, and they just don't work nearly as well. Then, there is Align, (Taiwan) who makes some really cheap ESCs and while their products have many of the "features" of the other companies, they just don't work or have a tendency to catch fire.
M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458 |
they just don't work or have a tendency to catch fire. That would fall under the category of disadvantages, right?
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
they just don't work or have a tendency to catch fire. That would fall under the category of disadvantages, right? Depends on the product. I have a BBQ lighter beside the fireplace whose tendency to catch fire seems disappointingly low given its intended use. Click. Click. Click. Click. ^%#@^%#@%&!!!
Last edited by bridgman; 10/14/10 03:13 AM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928 |
Click. Click. Click. Click. ^%#@^%#@%&!!! Is that Bowmanvillian for "I just singed my eyebrows off"?
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
Nope, more like "that's all the clicking I'm going to invest in this piece of junk, time to get the box of matches".
In its defence, I picked up the lighter at a grocery store one very cold day when my car door lock was frozen and I needed something more effective than cursing to heat up the car key and let me get back inside, and it *did* let me get back in the car.
Yes I had lock de-icer. In the car.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458 |
Yes I had lock de-icer. In the car. Where it was toasty warm.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210 |
John through experience I've found that keeping a Bic pocket lighter on hand specifically for lighting the BBQ lighter keeps the BBQ lighter from finding itself on the bottom of the pool and lights on the very first click.
If you think 'Click. Click. Click. Click. ^%#@^%#@%&!!!' is bad, try lighting one after it's been on the bottom of the swimming pool.
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877 |
-David
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92 |
Great information all and I appreciate it. I had some misinformation on DSP technology mostly from a stereotype due to really poor DSP performance in lower end HT receivers that came out 5-10 years ago. I had always thought DSP made things sound horrible and fake.
I realize that good technology/software and research can make a product more consistent with what the designer had in mind. After being in the market for HT equipment for going on one year now I feel that SVS is moving in the right direction and I hope they are truly putting in a quality product. I would recommend, SVS HSU Axiom Outlaw and many other "internet" companies as they have built a solid reputation among the communities.
Unfortunately for me Axiom subs may be ten times better than a SVS but at the moment they are simply out of my price range. For now the PB12-NSD will have to do.
Last edited by Nashvegas Rocks; 10/15/10 03:10 PM. Reason: Formatting for readability (sp)
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466 |
He was probably talking about the DSP modes like "Hall", "Stadium", "Club", etc. They still make things sound horrible and fake.
DSP just means Digital Signal Processor. What's done with the signal processing is what counts.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92 |
He was probably talking about the DSP modes like "Hall", "Stadium", "Club", etc. They still make things sound horrible and fake. You are 100% correct. This was the stereotype that I had.
Last edited by Nashvegas Rocks; 10/15/10 03:31 PM.
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2
|
|
|
Re: SVS Sledge Amps
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 110 |
I'm curious to learn more about the new SVS amps and the built in parametric EQs. I wonder if they make my SMS-1 unnecessary.
I have to agree that I think Axiom's higher end subs are *very* nice but I think SVS's subs in the < $1200 range are a better value.
I am curious which sounds better between the EP500v3 and the PC12+ DSP. I would expect the PC12+ to have the edge.
I just noticed that SVS is using Analog Devices' DSPs which last time I checked, have a pretty good reputation.
Last edited by prototype3a; 10/16/10 03:56 AM.
M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics24,945
Posts442,477
Members15,617
| |
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
|
|
|
0 members (),
1,000
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
