Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Room EQ feature

It's no secret that resident Axiom audio-guru Alan Lofft has no love for the (MCACC/YPAO/Denon 3805) room EQ features found on certian reveivers as is evident by this month's newsletter. My take on Alan's comments is that he seems to imply that if you have reasonably good speakers, then these EQ features are virtually worthless and will do more harm than good.

In reply to:

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(Editorial note: Although I didn't receive a demo of the AVR-3805, it's worth noting that doing accurate measurements of listening-room frequency response aberrations is extremely complex, and correcting for room response errors using 8 bands of parametric digital EQ is essentially impossible. At worst, such digital auto-correction schemes have the potential of making good speakers sound bad by "correcting" the frequency response of an otherwise neutral, linear well-designed speaker. Users may mistakenly interpret small level increases introduced by the auto-EQ system as sounding "better," a common result of uncontrolled listening. I would advise enthusiasts to take these auto-EQ systems with a liberal dose of salt, and not base purchasing decisions on this particular feature.)

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I'm just curious as to weather or not those members of this board who have purchased these various (Yamaha,Pioneer) receivers feel like they have wasted thier money on this particular feature. And would they be just as happy with a receiver that does not have this feature. Anybody care to comment?

I know that's a primary reason I'm considering the 55Txi when I buy. I don't have the foggiest how to calibrate a setup on my own so I was hoping it would give me a hand. If there's easy to understand relatively set instructions on how to calibrate, I guess it opens the door on other receivers. I would certainly welcome help or relevant feedback.

-Nick

Using EQ to enhance, neutralize or otherwise change a frequency response of a system within a particular room is not a new concept.
What is new is trying to make it in an idiot-proof or easy-to-setup box.

I am a bit leery of using the EQ on these very new systems. Some problems have already been reported on odd settings created by this function.
More importantly, trying to create a completely flat room response may not produce the type of sound that ppl want to hear. Just b/c the response is flat, this does not automatically create audio nirvana although some will argue it should be more audibly 'accurate'.
To that i say, so what?
Who says accuracy defines audio perfection?
Many live music performances in back room bars and clubs is anything but accurate in sound yet i know those who are searching for the 'live' sound for their stereo systems.

However i do applaud the idea of being able to correct for some extreme humps in sound created by that crazy, oversized lead sculpture that the wife decided has to sit right in front of the couch. I would not buy a receiver based on it having or not having this feature though.

That's my 3 cents.

That's a good 3 cents worth Chess.

I know that YPAO/MCACC is not perfect as I've seen some of the problems that you've alluded to. Most of the problems I've seen/heard of had nothing to do with the EQ portion of the setup but rather with the "phase(wiring)" check and "speaker size" check. I think many ppl are confused about the auto setup in that they think the EQ portion of the setup and the wiring, distance, size and level checks are all one-in-the-same.

Granted, if the ,d,s,l checks are not correct then the EQ will not be right, but the ,d,s,l setups can all be easily done manually though the onscreen menus and then skipped during the auto setup (at least on the Yamaha RX-V 1400/2400). For example, my 2400 often "sees" one of my speakers as being wired out of phase and "sees" my surrounds as large (possibly because they are rated down to 65Hz) which has nothing to do with the EQ setup. So I go into "manual setup" and give it the correct values. However, the 2400 is accurate on the distance and level checks.

I read somewhere recently -- I haven't been able to find the source, but I believe Dr. Hsu said it -- that the human ear naturally adjusts to the coloration a room adds to the sound and can rather quickly tune it out.

I'd hope that Dr. Hsu didn't say that. The room colorations can be more significant than those of the speakers if the speakers are relatively flat. Learning to tolerate a coloration caused by any factor, including the room, shouldn't excuse not making efforts to minimize it.

John, are you trying to take colour out of our lives?
I'm not a big fan of grey.

Sorry, chess, I thought that it was just black(e.g. SVS cylinders).

perhaps coloration was the wrong term, and it may not have been Dr. Hsu. My mind is going....

I use EQ on my system and would not be without it. My EQ is all digital. I use a BFD on the sub and have it flat within +-1db! The parametric EQ allows to correct for the room response, eliminating boominess. Some people create a house curve to satisfy their tastes (I like it flat...once you have listened to a flat bass response for a few days, it is hard to listen to anything else). My other speakers are adjusted using digital 31 band EQ's. The adjustments are very subtle, and tame certain undesireable artifacts such as honkiness, tinniness, or the ever unpopular shrillness in women's voices. To be fair, since I bought my Epic 80 system, There is pretty much NO EQ given to the speakers. They are quite close to flat in my room. Just simply a half decibel here or there (a 1/3 octave EQ is not quite as precise as a parametric, so small adjustments are needed to keep it from affecting adjacent frequencies).

One last thing. When I say the bass is flat, I mean that it took me several hours to measure from 15hz to 120hz, 1hz at a time. Then I had to plot the results, find my center frequencies, decide on my bandwidth, correlate that to the BFD number system, and program it all into the BFD, along with the cut or...in one case, a mild boost. Then the delay that is added by the digital EQ's must be factored in and adjusted to keep time alignment correct. It is a slow process with gratifying results.