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Re: Room EQ feature
#32588 01/31/04 11:41 PM
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When you start posting, "Dai....sy, ....Dai....sy, ....give ..me ...your ...an ....swer ...do...." then we'll know that your mind is going.


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Re: Room EQ feature
#32589 02/01/04 01:07 AM
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Without the EQ feature I could never match my Maggies with my VP150 and QS8 in HT. The sound was too far off that any movie sounded off because the sound characteristics of my mains were very different than my center and rears. After calibration with the Elite MCACC feature the speakers work together rather well and balanced.
I only use EQ calibration for movies. I listen to music in 2 stereo mode as it was made to be.


Re: Room EQ feature
#32590 02/02/04 04:23 AM
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I have an RX-V1400/M60/VP150/QS8/Hsu VTF-3R. I tend to agree with Alan Lofft. I don't fully trust YPAO. The wiring, distance, and level checks work OK. However it sometimes chooses a 200Hz bass crossover. The bass output YPAO selects seems insufficient for my tastes, but maybe that's just me. I'm suspicious about the EQ settings -- sometimes it picks fairly large + and - boosts/cuts close together. E.g, +5db at 120hz, -3db at 200hz.

Tonight my system just didn't sound right so after re-running YPAO several times I turned off the EQ by switching to graphical-flat. It sounded a lot better afterward.

No matter how well YPAO works, it does nothing for my SACD player, which uses the RV-V1400 multichannel analog in. For that I have to do a manual level calibration, manual speaker size/config selection, and there's no EQ available since analog in bypasses the RX-V1400's EQ.

I think in theory things like YPAO and MCACC are great, and the current products are decent early steps towards a highly refined, comprehensive auto calibration. However there's a way to go before this is sufficiently robust, reliable, and easy to use.

Re: Room EQ feature
#32591 02/02/04 06:59 PM
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Maybe the problem is with YPAO.

In my instance I use MCACC for EQ calibration. I do not use the distance or level checks. I do that manually.
After EQ calibration I can play this demo bouncing ball that jumps from one speaker to the next and as it circles the room it sounds tonally correct and balance. Before calibration the ball sounded differently from the mains to the center and the rears. I do not agree with Alan Lofft in his view of calibration for Home Theater at least. I can see his point in relation to music. A balance properly calibrated video and sound presentation in Home Theater can provide a much more enjoyable experience. As with my example I have different sets of speakers and sound tonally mismatched. The MCACC in my case blends those speaker quite nicefully for home theater. Yes this inadvertantly may change the FLAT responce curves of my Axiom QS8 and VP150 speakers but the general presentation as a whole in MY setup is much better. The Elite series has a button than can disengaged the MCACC calibration. I do that when I listen to music.

I personally think that even the VP150 and QS8 tonally sound a little different. Try playing your test pink noise with the VP150 and QS8 and toggle back and forth. I would be astounded to hear you say "Oh they sound the same". If they sound the same why are not people running QS8 for a center channel? They are both FLAT and they sound the same...so why the hell not.

I share your same view that like YPAO and MCACC are great and help lots of enthusiasts but the software still needs to be refined. As with systems that have all of the same speakers coming from the same manufacturer and have the same drivers there is usually no need to EQ calibrate the speakers. But for systems that have different set of speakers from different companies...EQ calibration can help quite a bit...or not...

As there are GREAT people on this forum that PREACH GREAT DOGMAS. All opinions on here should be taken with a grain of salt. Some are wrong and some are right. Try it out for yourself and come to your conclusions.



Re: Room EQ feature
#32592 02/02/04 07:04 PM
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Seeing as how the QS8 is far from directional, I'd have a hard time using it as a center channel. I look forward to testing out your theory that they sound so different when I receive them.

They're supposted to ship today. I haven't received a FedEx code. Should I cross my fingers?

Re: Room EQ feature
#32593 02/02/04 07:25 PM
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In reply to:

As there are GREAT people on this forum that PREACH GREAT DOGMAS. All opinions on here should be taken with a grain of salt. Some are wrong and some are right. Try it out for yourself and come to your conclusions.




Amen!



I live the life I love and I love the life I live.
Re: Room EQ feature
#32594 02/02/04 07:28 PM
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I think this whole idea about speakers and timbre matching may not be what some ppl think it is.
This little review defines them pretty well.
I don't think alot of ppl really know what timbre matching is and certainly, with the very different aspects of sound dispersion (spatially) between a QS8 and a VP150 that many really have the wrong idea about what they are hearing such that it is being described as a non-timbre matched pair of speakers.

How is it possible that 2 speakers, built by the same company, with the same cabinet designs, with the same materials and drivers would not be timbre matched?
If a timbre match cannot be attained by these means, then theoretically no two speakers will ever be matched.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Room EQ feature
#32595 02/02/04 09:38 PM
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Thanks for the link.
I am not looking for an EXACT match...but a close likeness of sound be it direct firing or dispersed. For instance if you have a helicopter start on your right ..fly to your left and then zoomed off to your left rear surround...would you expect to have the sound of the helicopter (pitch and timbre) flow nicely from each of those speaker with almost the same sound. This would provide a more lifelike or at least continuity of the same sound throught the Home Theater environment. The reason why Dolby Pro Logic, DD and DTS was created was to immerse the audience with lifelike enveloping sound. Having all speakers tonally and tibre matched (just as close as possible..not exactly match because you are saying it is not possible)
Hence why some people have upgraded their rear surrounds from Polks to QS8 because the QS8 matches their VP150 and M60 more closely.
Timbre and pitch matching by making sure all your drivers in your speaker array are closely similar makes a better presentation. Hence the many dicussion about individuals here matching the M60 with the Qs8 rather than the Qs4...and with the rest of the Axiom line. But the other individuals have different brands and drivers have speakers that do not match in timbre and pitch. By using EQ calibrating software like YPAO and MCACC it tries to match tibre and pitch as close as possible. Yes this mucks up the frequency response of some speakers...to make it less flat. But I find over all presentation for Home Theater a lot better for MY situation.
I still don't get why people carry on with the flat frequency CRAP. No one here can tell if a speaker has a flat frequency or not...by giving a good listen. Your ear will tell you what sound you like or not.
I laugh all the time when someone says the Axiom are the best sounding speaker..they have a flat frequency. Speakers like the Revel Ultima, Wilson Watt Puppy 7, B&W 801 do not have a flat frequency and cost many times the Axioms. If all those speakers plus a M80 or M60 were in a the same room and they had a choice to walk away with any of the speakers after they gave a listen but only one. I'd like to see who walks out of that room with those M80.
Axioms are great speakers for the price and speakers around its range. Hands down. It is by no means the final word. A lot of people here talk like it is.


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