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#326686 - 10/27/10 09:48 AM 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's
lex Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 28
Hello again. I was curious if anyone is running a 6.1 system with the QS8's for the surrounds. Since the QS8's are so well designed, my question is would I need the rear center to fill any void in the rear or will the 2 side rears be fine. the room i'm building is about 19' long, 15' wide and 9' tall. Thank you!

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#326690 - 10/27/10 09:54 AM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: lex]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I have QS8s to the direct sides of the listening area. When used alone, pans of the surround channel seem to go over-head rather than around behind. Using my old surround speakers for the surround backs (and always having them enabled with Prologic IIx processing) provides a more stable rear image.

It is possible that moving the side surrounds back a couple feet would accomplish the same thing without need for rear speakers.

I have to say, even with the old speakers, I really like the seamless sound field I get for surround effects.

While it is possible that you could get by with two M2s back there, I wouldn't put a single mono-pole speaker directly behind your head. This also causes auditory confusion, and sounds directly behind can be misinterpreted as coming from in front.

EDIT: How far will you be seated from the rear wall? Closer, it is better to use a diffuse speaker like the QS8, but farther direct radiators will be fine.


Edited by ClubNeon (10/27/10 09:55 AM)
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#326692 - 10/27/10 10:00 AM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: ClubNeon]
lex Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 28
ClubNeon - I don't think the seating area will be more than 10' from the rear wall. I'll look into the M2's in the meantime. Thanks.

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#326697 - 10/27/10 10:31 AM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: lex]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
10 feet is a pretty good distance. Mono-poles, e.g. M2s, will work very well there. That would save you some cash over a pair of QS8s, but a single QS8 is cheaper than a pair of M2s.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#326704 - 10/27/10 11:09 AM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: ClubNeon]
lex Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 28
So, would you go with a single QS8 over a pair of M2's? The cost between the 2 solutions won't be a factor.

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#326705 - 10/27/10 11:16 AM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: lex]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
With a 10 foot distance, I'd go with the M2s. I have a 7.5' distance, and my old Sony surrounds fill in very well with the diffuse QS8s on the sides.

You'll want to place the M2s toward the edges of the listening area on the back wall. For example, I have rears just about lined up with (slightly wider) the arms of the couch.

And as I was saying, with the use of rear surrounds, and Prologic IIx (or DTS NEO:6) you can place the QS8s directly to the sides of the listening area, so the flat between the tweeters is lined up with with the listener's ears.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#326710 - 10/27/10 12:07 PM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: ClubNeon]
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
Lex - let me jump in here and give you my impressions.

I have a dedicated basement HT with QS8 surrounds about 3 feet above ear height, exactly to the left and right of the main listening position.

I enjoyed this configuration for about 2 years before upgrading my receiver and installing 2 rear channels (direct firing - not the QS8) in the rear. They are about 4 feet behind the listening area and hung from the ceiling.

My impressions: The QS8s alone filled the room with sound and I noticed no gaps in the rear soundfield even during pans. The reflections and dispersion characteristics of the QS8 really provide a nicely diffuse rear surround environment.

After installing the 6th and 7th channels behind the listening area, the sound field filled in slightly, but the difference was not so noticeable that I said "oh, wow, I've been missing so much." The two rear speakers do help with pans and overall filling out the rear sound field. But as far as getting direct spacial cues, the QS8s fill that part of the room so well with sound that the cues are often undetectable (a good thing for ambient effects).

My recommendation would be to invest in two M2s and wire them in stereo (in a 7.1) configuration. This will future-proof the setup a bit. The 7.1 will give you a stereo rear surround and will also permit you to tweak the separation of the rear speakers to optimize the rear sound field, as opposed to hanging a single QS8, with really only one option of placing it directly behind the main listening position.

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#326716 - 10/27/10 12:44 PM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: Capn_Pickard]
lex Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 28
OK, so is everyone using the brackets that came with their QS8's, or is anyone using anything else? I would think since that speaker fires in 4 directions, the flush mount should be fine. Thoughts?

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#326721 - 10/27/10 12:59 PM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: lex]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
The included T-bracket worked perfectly for me when mounting the QS8.

The M2, on the other hand, is going to require a little bit of work. They have a port on the rear, and need a couple inches of clearance. Axiom's Full Metal Brackets will work great, but are a little expensive.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#326723 - 10/27/10 01:11 PM Re: 5.1 or 6.1 with QS8's [Re: Capn_Pickard]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Hi Lex how about I try to create more confusion for you.

I’ve done lots of experimenting with 5.1 (QS8s), 6.1 (QS8 surrounds and either a QS8, M22 or VP150 rear) and 7.1 (QS8 surrounds, M22 or QS8 rears). My experience indicates that what works best depends most on the shape of the room and relative seating positions to the side and rear walls.

In a relatively square room where the side and rear walls are close to equal distance from the seating I’ve found that by placing the 5.1 surround speakers farther back they create a phantom rear image that has even sounded better to me than 6.1 or 7.1 while still maintaining a seamless side surround stage.

In a longer more narrow room where the side walls are closer to the seating than the rear walls 5.1 surround speakers can’t be placed optimally to create both side and rear surround images without there being gaps in the 360 degree soundstage.

6.1 helps fill in the rear soundstage some while still allowing for optimal side surround speaker placement. However, as I believe Alan has pointed it can be difficult to tell if the sound from a single speaker directly behind you is actually coming from behind or from directly in front. In this respect a single QS8 performs a little better than a single M22 or M2 since it spreads out the sound behind you better.

While IMO 6.1 can sound a little better than 5.1 in a narrow room it’s not even close to how much better 7.1 sounds. As for QS8 vs M22, or M2 working better as 7.1 rear speakers I use to think that if there was enough room behind your seats (about 5 or more feet) then direct radiating speakers like the M2 would sound about as good as QS8 speakers. I’ve done a lot more listening since then and changed my mind feeling the even with 8 feet behind me in my present room the QS8 clearly outperform the M22 and M2 speakers in the 7.1 rear duties.

So if money is not an issue I highly recommend you stick with QS8 speakers for both side and rear surround duties.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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