Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater (Another) newbie advice thread

Been on CanuckAudioMart discussing my possible set-up and Axiom has come up a few times, so thought I'd float on over here for some direct advice.

I have a rough budget of $2000 for which I was hoping to get 5.1 speakers AND a receiver, based on the options here I think that might need to be pushed to at least $2500.

I already own a TV, Optik TV, X360 and BD player (Samsung BD6500). The system will mainly be used for movies and games with some TV. I'm looking for all my speakers to be wall mounted as I don't have a lot of floor space either side of the TV and none behind the sofa.

I have wiring in the room for 7.1 but thinking to help with budget that I'd only buy 5.1 right now.

The system will be in my basement where I’d put the wires in the wall already. The room is long and I have the couch set-up horizontally across from the TV, about 11.5Ft away, looking back at the plans for when the basement was developed (NB I still have the PDF can I attach to a post if that helps?).

As a comparison I’ve currently got my eye on the Kef 3005SE 5.1 set-up which I can get online for $1200 right now, I’m still not sure on which receiver I’d pair with these. Interested in what the best solution would be from Axiom and some advice on speaker choice as well as receiver options.

Welcome!

Pictures and diagrams help us "visual learner" types

These are fun kinds of threads!

If you don't have any floor space behind the sofa, 7.1 is not going to do you any good.

Personally, I think the Onkyo refurbs at shoponkyo.com or accessories4less.com offer excellent value in receivers. Find one that has the features you want. I wouldn't spend more than about $450.

I think you're compromising sound quality by mandating "onwall" speakers. Perhaps a traditional speaker mounted on the wall? You spend some $ on mounts, of course. Can you do INWALL speakers? That would be an excellent option if you're willing to cut the sheetrock.

At any rate, I'd get M22's, QS8's, a VP100 and about a $400-500 sub.

Sorry for the incomplete reply - I know others will chime in.

Welcome to the forum!

Within your budget, here what I would consider:
From the auction site at "buy it now" price (Axiom B stock):
M22s $439
VP100 $238
QS8s $502
From the main site:
EP350 $768 (Can get cheaper if you wait until one shows up on the auction site).

That leaves you with over $500 for the receiver. I am sure an entry level Denon can be purchased at this price.

Cheers,

I never heard the KEF system, but judging by the size of the satellites, I would think that the Axiom would be a big improvement. Either if it is worth the price different is up to you. Just don't forget that Axiom as a 30 days trials so you could try it in your basement and you are not happy, could always send it back, no questions asked.

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Here's my attempt at inserting an image of the room with crude diagram of what I'm working with. (NB the little cubby hole mapped into the diagram where the L front speaker is doesn't exist it's wall all the way to the outside wall)

Wires are in the wall and ceiling already so I'd be happy to cut open and it will probably make my life easier to fish out the wires. The rear 2 are on an external wall with insulation behind so not sure how that affects installation of in-walls, maybe I stick with on wall for the rear.

Hola Hobess -

Based on the diagram provided above, a couple of things stick out at me:

With the couch in the couch, against a wall, as Tom said, 7.1 will be a disappointing experience. Stick with the 5.1

It's not clear whether the in ceiling speakers are already wired/placed, etc. If they are not, you might consider placing them a little further apart.

If you MUST go with a 7.1 set up, then you should move the rear two speakers to be IN BETWEEN the in ceiling speakers, so the speakers form as much of a circle as possible.

I also notice you haven't placed a sub in the room. I suspect this is merely an oversight in the drawing, though.

Welcome to the forum, though! Have fun and enjoy listening.

Yup - oversight on the lack of sub, there is no wiring in the walls for it, plan was to have it under the L Front speaker beside the AV cabinet.

The wiring for all speakers is in the wall and ceiling, if I'm installing in-walls I can play about a bit more with the speaker placement as I can reach in and fish out the wires from where they are hiding provided I stick between the studs where the wires are right now. This leaves me less width flexibility on the ceiling as the joists are closer together and run horizontally across the space.

The in-ceiling 2 speakers would be a later addition if needed, I put the wire in to have the option.

NB the speaker placement on the drawing is pretty rough, my scribbles of exact locations are at home and I did it almost a year ago... Also it's all just hidden wiring right now, no speakers in place.

First if you are really into gaming you want to get that sofa off the back wall a little bit. Even if you can pull it forward a couple of feet it will give some room for a rear soundstage to develop even if using only 5.1 surrounds placed just behind and to the sides of your seating. I game a lot and you don’t want to mistaken the direction something is coming at you from if it’s behind you. I would shoot for at least 1 meter which based on your picture is doable. This will also help your front speakers especially bookshelf and in/on wall better reach your seating as it will move your listen position closer. It will also likely make your front speakers sound better by delaying the reflection off the back wall which will likely interfere with the direct sound coming from the front if the sofa is up against the wall.

That said if you are focused on mostly movies and games I would prioritize the following based on your personal preference.

1. Get a good subwoofer that goes down to 20 Hz. For movies and gaming this will really pay off.

2. Get a good center speaker for movie dialogue intelligibility.

3. Get very diffuse surround speakers because of the limited distance behind your seating and because of how close the left wall is.

4. Get timbre matched speakers all around so that 360 degree pans in games sound seamless.

Based on that I would recommend 2xM22 mains, 1xM22 or 1xM2 or 1xVP100 center (preference on the matching M22 and then M2 because they sound so similar and are both less expensive than the VP100), 2xQS8s (stick with 5.1 for now and if you can’t pull the sofa off the back wall I wouldn’t even waste the money on 7.1). The sub is a tougher choice. I haven’t heard the EP350 but I’m inclined to say you should go below the EP500 for a room of that volume. Not sure if there are any other sub makers in a similar or lower price range in Canada but if so you might also look into them. The sub is one speaker that doesn’t need to be timbre matched to the others so a different manufacturer isn’t a problem.

Even if you don’t have room for bookshelf speakers sitting on the floor I would consider putting up shelves and using regular bookshelf speakers instead of on or in wall. IMO you will get a little better performance out of them and have more flexibility if you ever want to move them somewhere else or even sell them.

I agree on the refurbished Onkyo or also a Denon receiver though other brands will do fine if you can find a bargain for something with the features you want.

If you plan on this system being with you for a while I wouldn’t skimp on any of your speaker selections. IMO it’s better to build a system piece by piece and get what you want rather than trying to get everything at once if it means downgrading a speaker.

Cheers,
Dean

+1 for Bruno, Adrien and Dean. Man, we are GOOD today.

You could consider shelves or a console table behind the sofa so that moving it forward feels a little less forced.

I wouldn't mess with the ceiling speakers at all for now. I would just mount the QS8's on the rear wall.

What was that newish Canadian sub manufacturer with the crazy name? sonicboomaudio sells SVS subs in Canada (~$600 and up).

Howdy to a fellow Calgarian, I concur with the rest of the guys.

I will offer my services if you want to hear some Axioms, just send me a PM. I have M22Ti's(original series), VP100Ti, M80v2, VP150v2, and QS8's Ti's. I run an SVS PB13 Ultra sub.

Tom, I believe you are thinking of Funky Waves Audio.

Yes! Thanks, Jason.

Hobb, welcome. Judging from the diagram, you're too close to the back wall for rear surround speakers to set up a good rear sound field. QS side surrounds in a 5.1 setup, placed on the back wall about where you show the "rears"(preferably 2-3' above ear level and spread as widely as possible)should work well, and there's no need for ceiling speakers to confuse the issue.

M22 mains with, if possible, a vertical M22 or M2 center, would be an excellent setup across the front.

Thanks for all the help.

While it looks like there is room to move the sofa forward I'd rather not get too much closer to the TV, it's just not quite practical and the diagram doesn't quite capture that. I'm also averse to shelves in front, I have a thin Samsung LED which, while it isn't mounted ultra low profile, I'd still rather keep the speakers fairly neat to the wall so based on the pictures would be buying the In/On Wall versions to get the best look. I appreciate the argument about taking them when moving, but I'd be ok with some repairing work in several years time if that's the case and don't see me moving for a while anwyay.

So based on the advice here's roughly what I have as a build (I looked on the auction page and the only in/on wall is the VP150 which is still over $100 more than the new VP100)
M22 - $488/pair
VP100 - $264 (can't see pricing for single M2 as suggested)
QS8 - $558 (could buy on auction site)
EP350 - $768 (going to the EP500 is an extra $500 so starts to really push things)
Total is $2078

I could in theory drop the QS8s for now and wait to buy them later. Could I even also drop the Sub and still get a good 3.0 system to start? If I was going to do that would it be worth switching to V150 for the centre?

I'm also stuck on a receiver choice. Bit lost within all the various options and blinded by features! Personally would prefer not to buy reconditioned, but appreciate the links posted earlier. Advice from elsewhere is to move away from something like the Onkyo SR608 which is well reviewed from a feature point of view but lacking the power in the system to really drive more expensive speakers. However I'm still a real newbie when learning the terms and what to look for and just working on reviews and other opinions.

One more thought is for you to buy the Epic Grand Master 350 for $2,122.30, swapping the bookshelf versions for the in/on-wall versions. This is only $44 more and you get the VP150.

Yup - good point, I had looked at that yesterday but had forgot to mention that this morning as I was looking at pricing to make things flexible. If was to go all out and buy 5.1 that would be the best option.

On the product page, below the buttons for "add to cart" and "customize yours", there is a link for "add single speaker to cart". For new stock, it's 1/2 the pair price, so $158 for an M2v3.



You could, but you're going to lose quite a bit of "wow" factor



I wouldn't do it. If you have to save money initially, I'd get 2.1 to start, then the surrounds, and the center LAST. Modern receivers can run a "phantom center channel" where the content is sent to the mains. It's not as good, but it's something.



Honestly, considering the relatively short listening distance, I don't think you're going to get "value" going to a VP150 instead of an M2 or VP100.

As to receivers, nobody ever seems disappointed when they buy a Denon (except the manuals are horrifying and I hated my 1804 remote). I wouldn't let wattage drive your decision, though. You're going to get potentially damaging levels from something like the Onkyo you mentioned. You could look for a receiver with pre-outs (so that you *could* add an external amplifier later) if you really wanted to hedge your bets. People seem pretty high on the Pioneer VSX-1020K which is very full-featured and can be had for about USD$400.

I really have to defer to my Canadian brothers about subwoofer availability and such. I'm sure that the EP350 is a great unit and it is definitely the right Axiom sub for your application. However, it seems like a slightly disproportionate part of your budget, and you might be able to shave ~$150 off that component if you wanted to get basic black from another manufacturer.

I second Tom’s recommendation that you skip the center and add it later rather than skipping the sub or surrounds.

Shopping list then right now:
M22x2 - $488
M2 - $158 (is it worth it to up to M22 at $244?)
QS8x2 - $558

SVS SB12 - $599

Pioneer VSX1020 - $704 - possibly some savings by shopping cross border on this (or VSX30 for $498)

Total - $2507

Was reading the other thread on the M2s to see what the impression is on the M22 or M2 as center. Would be watching a variety of movies & TV so want to make sure dialogue is clear.

Dialogue will be clear no matter which Axiom you use as a center, they all excel with sound clarity.

Check out Soundsaround and haggle with them, they seem to be wary of crossborder shopping lately and giving better pricing,