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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
fredk #336161 01/29/11 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: fredk
As long as its double blind so the bias is removed...

See where this is going?


...and true double blind-experiments doesn't really exist in audio...

Nowhere?


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
cb919 #336172 01/29/11 05:11 AM
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Yeah, Dan; that sort of "review", describing in glowing terms the "sound" of a piece of electronic equipment, can't be taken seriously. If the amplification process is understood, it's clear that all that's happening is that enough voltage is being added from the power supply section to make the small incoming voltage about 30 times stronger. If this is done with flat frequency response and inaudibly low noise and distortion(typical in even modestly-priced units these days), the result is transparent amplification without any added sound characteristic, and no amplifier, regardless of whether it costs $200 or $200,000, can do more than this.

The editor of The Audio Critic summarizes this very well in "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality!" . Of course where such reviewers lack the equipment or technical knowledge to provide meaningful measurements, they're reduced to operating on a "Just trust your ears" level, which is hopelessly flawed when not done under carefully-controlled blind listening conditions.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
BlueJays1 #336173 01/29/11 05:18 AM
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It's a real
nowhere thread
Getting all
into our heads
Making us all
hot and bo-othered…

Peter's got a
point of view
And JohnK,
he has one too
Isn't this horse be-e-eaten y-e-et?


Nowhere thread
please listen
You don't know
what you're missin'
Nowhere thread
the a..a..a..amp
makes a difference ...la la la la

Double blind is what you'll be
If you're listening, you can't see
Nowhere thread, you don't read me at aAall...

Nowhere thread,
Don't worry
Do it blind,
No, surely
Trust your ears
not somebody else's nu-u-umbers!

Catbrat's got a point of view,
ClubNeon, he's got one, too
Isn't this horse be-e-eaten y-e-et?

Nowhere thread
please listen
You don't know
what you're missin'
Nowhere thread
the a-a-a-amp
makes no difference ..la la la la

It's a real nowhere thread
Getting all inside our heads
Making all these arguments
for nobody.
Making all these arguments
for nobody.
Making all these arguments for nobody!


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
Ken.C #336178 01/29/11 05:40 AM
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Posts: 3,466
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If you don't beat the horses once in a while; how are they going to stay dead?


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
ClubNeon #336179 01/29/11 05:46 AM
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Hmm. On second/third/fifteenth thought, "murdered" would have been a better word there.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
CatBrat #336185 01/29/11 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I know when I went from a cheap Sony 100wpc amp to a more expensive Pioneer Elite 110wpc, there was a night and day difference.

Night and day in what part of the world? Northern Alaska in the winter?

Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
cb919 #336194 01/29/11 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
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axiomite
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Posts: 6,015
But, nowhere "is" somewhere.

Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
pmbuko #336196 01/29/11 01:28 PM
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axiomite
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Posts: 6,015
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I know when I went from a cheap Sony 100wpc amp to a more expensive Pioneer Elite 110wpc, there was a night and day difference.

Night and day in what part of the world? Northern Alaska in the winter?


Apparently, it was nowhere. Amazing how a big difference is heard by someone, but it can't be true unless everyone else hears it. Kinda like falling trees can't make a noise unless someone was there to hear it.

Last edited by CatBrat; 01/29/11 01:30 PM.
Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
CatBrat #336215 01/29/11 06:53 PM
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C
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If the difference was that great to you, who are we to argue? Of course you have the right to quantify the change in whatever terms you want. I went from a mid-level Onkyo receiver to separates which include Axiom's A1400-8. I love the loud, clean playback levels compared to the Onkyo's obviously underpowered receiver with its harsher sound at higher volumes, but I'd personally be hard-pressed to call the difference night and day. Maybe clear blue skies versus a bit overcast.

Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
CV #336219 01/29/11 07:35 PM
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J
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J
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I too went from a Sony to a Denon and the difference was very noticeable. I can remember thinking the dynamic range was better with the Denon, which would mean the Sony was very under powered for the volume levels I wanted. The Sony seemed to have a much flatter playback less noticeable highs and lows than the Denon.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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