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#350764 - 06/22/11 11:29 AM VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel?
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 274
Loc: Alexandria, VA
howdy, i am thinking of using the VP100v3 as a back surround center creating a 6.1 system; i'm curious if anyone is using this center in this manner and if they like it or not. i am looking at it because i like the look of it as a surround back center (or 1 speaker/channel for surround back) and i think it would work out nicely in that capacity.

i currently have 2 M2v3's in a 7.1 but want to move the M2v3's to a different location for 2 channel only music. I would really like to hear from anyone who has used any of the VP centers as a single surround back channel and also from anyone who uses any of the VP on-wall centers to chime in on how they sound.

i do so like the idea of having my VP180v3 center complimented by it's baby brother the VP100 as the surround back channel center.

time to sound off fellow Axiom owners.

Please be civil in your responses and be mindful and respectful of others.

Please & Thank You!
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 93&83

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#350765 - 06/22/11 11:32 AM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: solarrdadd]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 274
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Please keep one thing in mind, i do NOT want suggestions on using any other speakers for a single surround back channel. I only want to hear about the VP100v3 center for said use with the pros & cons.

Please & Thank You!
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 93&83

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#350766 - 06/22/11 11:37 AM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: solarrdadd]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3442
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
A single speaker directly behind your head will often cause the illusion of the sound coming from in front of you. So in that case it's better to not have the rear center, as it creates a completely wrong sound field.

If you don't sit directly in front of it, but instead have two seats to either side, then the rear center can provide a more connected surround effect.

It's hard to say how well it will work. As long as it's not too much effort, you should probably just try it, and see how you like it.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#350767 - 06/22/11 11:51 AM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: solarrdadd]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 733
Loc: Toronto
There are really no "cons" to this idea. If you wish to use it as a single back surround it would probably do quite well. For years before the days of PLllX, I used a single back surround speaker and even in a particularly long room like mine, the single speaker did its job. I have since gone to the double speaker arrangement, however, since those back speakers are primarily "fill", if you ask me if I can hear a noticeable difference between having one or two speakers in a back surround configuration, I can honestly say, not really. I would suspect that perhaps in a smaller room where the back wall is much closer to the listener, then one might hear a difference.

It is interesting to note that even the latest model AVR's have the capability of hooking up a single back surround in the manner you describe so it is obvious many, because of other issues, or maybe just space limitations and wiring want the flexibility of doing just that.

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#350776 - 06/22/11 01:24 PM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: casey01]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I know you don't want to go with a different speaker suggestion but I don't really get why you want to stick to the VP100. If you want to go to 6.1, a single QS8 is pretty much the same price and would work better in dispersing the sound IMO.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#350787 - 06/22/11 02:56 PM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: ClubNeon]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 274
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
A single speaker directly behind your head will often cause the illusion of the sound coming from in front of you. So in that case it's better to not have the rear center, as it creates a completely wrong sound field.

If you don't sit directly in front of it, but instead have two seats to either side, then the rear center can provide a more connected surround effect.

It's hard to say how well it will work. As long as it's not too much effort, you should probably just try it, and see how you like it.


thanks, i currently have a 7.1 and don't get that sensation sound wise. they are less about 4-5 feet apart. how then does the sixth channel work as i would gather most folks with a sixth channel speaker has it centered in back of them and it should only be active (when used as a genuine surround back channel for one speaker) when watching or listening to a program that is recorded in either 6 or 7 channels (not including any matrixing)

logistically, it will be about 4' behind me and about 7'+ off of the floor in height so it's not directly in back of me, just centered.

thanks for the input as it was quite interesting and i'd like to see your responses. very good points you brought up!
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 93&83

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#350788 - 06/22/11 03:01 PM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: bdpf]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 274
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: bdpf
I know you don't want to go with a different speaker suggestion but I don't really get why you want to stick to the VP100. If you want to go to 6.1, a single QS8 is pretty much the same price and would work better in dispersing the sound IMO.


yeah, i did, but, that's an excellent point you bring up. most places i have read that it's best to have direct firing speakers for the back surrounds and bi-di or quad polar speakers for the sides (and i have QS8v3's for that).

this brings about another good question, how many folks use a single Q series speaker in a 6.1 fashion? I do know that they do an incredible job as side surrounds.

again, another really good suggestion that i hadn't thought of. so, people, feel free to chime in on a single QS8v3 or a VP100v3 speaker for a 6.1 system doing surround back duties and please include your for & against points.

edit: i would like to add this in the mix, one, this is going to be a new installation as i'm moving from where i currently am and secondly, there is a big opening where a wall was removed between rooms and there is a small 8" section left of that wall before it hits the ceiling and that is where i was gonna put the VP100v3. the height of the existing QS8v3's would be almost 2' lower than the surround back. just thought i'd mention that should it be important to anyone who is giving me suggestions. yeah, i know that's what calibration is for but just thought i'd throw that in there! end edit!

this is great, this is one of the best things about these forums!

thanks to everyone!


Edited by solarrdadd (06/22/11 03:08 PM)
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 93&83

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#350823 - 06/22/11 10:22 PM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: solarrdadd]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
SD, if you happened to have a spare VP100, it certainly could be tried in back, preferably oriented vertically. Buying one just for that purpose isn't a good idea in my view. The short distance of 4' behind you is marginal for setting up a rear sound field, and speakers of very wide dispersion, such as the QSs, would be advisable at that distance.

Note that actual discrete 6 or 7 channel material isn't necessary to benefit from rear surrounds, since processing such as DPLIIx can be applied to 2 and 5 channel source material to send appropriate back ambience to them.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#350835 - 06/22/11 11:37 PM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: JohnK]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 274
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: JohnK
SD, if you happened to have a spare VP100, it certainly could be tried in back, preferably oriented vertically. Buying one just for that purpose isn't a good idea in my view. The short distance of 4' behind you is marginal for setting up a rear sound field, and speakers of very wide dispersion, such as the QSs, would be advisable at that distance.

Note that actual discrete 6 or 7 channel material isn't necessary to benefit from rear surrounds, since processing such as DPLIIx can be applied to 2 and 5 channel source material to send appropriate back ambience to them.


thanks for your input johnk, the QS8v3 might just be the best solution and yeah, if you notice i mentioned not including matrixing so I knew about it, i also mentioned that i already have a 7.1 system but was going to repurpose the 2 M2v3's i have that currently do channels 6 & 7. but it's sounding like the Q's are gaining momentum and since i have a pair of QS8v3's and know how effective they are, perhaps that just might be the way to go!

again, thanks for the input, great advice as usual and it's given me something to think about.
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 93&83

Top
#350842 - 06/23/11 01:06 AM Re: VP100 on-wall for surround back center channel? [Re: solarrdadd]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3442
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Oh, I thought you had a VP100 somewhere. If you're buying, get the QS8. It's pretty much guaranteed not to suffer from the inverted sound field, because it won't be firing into the back of your head.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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