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Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/layout
#3536 06/11/02 06:03 PM
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jkohn Offline OP
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Hello,

I was wondering if you could comment on some concerns raised about the VP150's layout that were posted in the following two threads on another forum:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=760710
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73607

Some people seem to be arguing that the TMMMT layout of the VP150 would improve off-axis performance of the woofers, but at the expense of poor performance of the tweeters.

Given Axiom's reputation for building excellent speakers I wouldn't expect your top of the line center to have a serious design flaw, so I'm guessing maybe there's a little more to it than those threads would indicate? Would appreciate any clarification or explanation you could offer.

Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3537 06/12/02 02:50 AM
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axiomite
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Well i'm not Alan or Ian but just offhand i would tend not to listen to a guy who says the design of the speakers are flawed when he himself uses JBL speakers bought from A&B sound and was thinking about 'upgrading' to PSB Image2s from A&B sound (chek out their profiles and webpages). I won't even get into his atrocious grammer and spelling (e.g. His quote: "My enough knowledge to be dangerous tells me this layout is a bad idea.").

Another guy quotes:
"Remember I built an almost identical sub to theirs? [axiom] I think it could mate well with some little full range drivers for a Bose-Buster system. But for what they're [axiom] charging for them I'd agree that they're pathetic. [axiom subs] They don't even use 3/4" MDF"
Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the Axiom speakers WERE all 3/4" MDF (info taken from a recent Ian post on the composition of the new M22s and extrapolated it to all the Axiom models).

Secondly, this guy actually refers to Bose in the same sentence as if Bose were actually a decent speaker.
Oh please, you cannot compare those brand names to Axioms. Bose spends more money on marketing their product than they do on R&D which says it all.

If these kids are going to doubt the speaker design then they should at least LISTEN to the speaker first before criticizing it since it sounded as if none of them have actually heard the VP150. They should also be comparing the Axiom designs to other equally 'reputable' speaker companies (e.g. Monitor Audio and B&W) and not Future Shop specials.

This third guy only quotes specs and then says: "What a weak center. I'd aviod this like the plague just from these alone."
Again another non-listening opinion.

Then this dope chimes in with:
"And don't forget the cheap cabinet materials!"
Once again, apparently has never even seen the Axiom speaker. As far as i can tell the cabinet material is the same stuff (and good heavy material) that makes a solid cabinet.
I REALLY hate uninformed, illogical, unexperienced opinions. SHOW ME THE PROOF!

This last guy was a bit weird though and quoted some jargon about speakers.
"WRT the Konar vs D'Appolito view of MTM lobing, a high res TDS plot tells the tale doesn't it, so what's to debate? ?
Does that really mean anything?


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3538 06/12/02 04:53 AM
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jkohn Offline OP
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Well, I wouldn't immediately dismiss all JBL speakers as garbage...

I agree there's some "noise" in those threads from opinionated people who may not know what they're talking about.

But there are one or two people in the second, older thread who sound somewhat knowledgeable. And now that I think about it, if having too much distance between the woofers can hurt off-axis performance, why wouldn't the same thing be true for the tweeters?

Last edited by jkohn; 06/12/02 04:54 AM.
Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/layout
#3539 06/12/02 11:04 AM
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The TMMMT design provides better imaging with the two tweeters in the outboard positions, and reduces suckouts common with the MTM d'Appolito design.

The overall presentation of Axiom's design is more open and natural than the d'Appolito design, providing a more realistic and dynamic listening experience.

And for the record, I don't own Axioms yet. I have heard them and very much enjoy them, and as soon as I can sell my Paradigm Monitor 11 based HT system I will make the move to Axiom.


Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3540 06/12/02 03:12 PM
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axiomite
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Yes i normally would not lump all of one brand into a category and make a summary decision on their quality but from the JBL 've heard i think they are pretty low brow.
They make speakers for the masses, not for quality, in my humble opinion.

I personally feel that PSB and Paradigm have also moved into this 'make for the masses' category although they both started as very good companies, years ago, and i would buy PSB and Paradigm over Bose, JBL and some other select names.

Its the little things that make the differences that show quality still survives with some companies while others try to cut costs by using cheaper materials (e.g. felt surrounds vs. rubber, polypropylene cones vs. real metals).
I have alot of confidence that Axiom is still producing quality speakers. I'm sure Ian's design of the VP150 has some merit and was not just an idea that popped into his head one day without more extensive thought or testing.

In any case, you still can't dog a speaker design until you've heard the speaker. It just doesn't make sense.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/layout
#3541 06/12/02 05:21 PM
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connoisseur
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johnk

if you are going to listen to anything not from Alan or Ian, please, listen to this.

I have the VP150 and it's one of the best centers I have ever heard. I have the Fifth Element superbit, and that Opera scene at 'full blast' is @(^($@ incredible! Her voice, even at the highest frequencies, just sail across my living so gently and swiftly, never hitting a foul note, never sounding fatiguing or annoying. Trust me, I am EXTREMELY picky about sound. My receiver also has a 5 channel stereo option, and classical music with this on definitely sounds great out of the center. Off axis performance is also amazing. I have M22's, M3's, and VP150, and I think the VP150 has the best off axis performance of the three.

Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3542 06/12/02 05:23 PM
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enthusiast
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It may exist, but i haven't seen one yet. A bad review of an Axiom speaker from a reputable source (i.e. sound & vision, goodsound, soundstage, etc.), and i dont want to hear that CNET crap, they had nothing but good things to say about the speakers, but inexplicably (sp?) gave it a low rating. Thats where the real test is, not some uninformed self-appointed expert.
sorry about the rant but i am uterly impressed with my speakers.

Kore

Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3543 06/12/02 06:20 PM
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Hey chesseroo,

I took a look at that forum (link) and I just gotta say, that is one hell of a brain trust going on over there. Scary, isn't it?

CAV104

Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3544 06/12/02 06:48 PM
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axiomite
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Well some of them appear to be trusting on something affecting the brain.
Geez that one guy spouted so much jargon and unknown abbreviations i swear he's a couple of marbles short of a bag.

I am awaiting the day that some knob puts out a forum thread stating that leaving a toenail clipping on the top of their speaker drastically improves the sound.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Ian (or Alan), question about VP150 design/lay
#3545 06/12/02 08:12 PM
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Wait a minute, I thought a toenail clipping DID improve the sound. Reduces clipping, don't you know.


M60s, VP150, QS8 x4 ACI Titan II sub Anthem AVM20 pre/pro Anthem PVA7 amp Panasonic DVD-RP91
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