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#35784 - 03/05/04 03:09 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
joema Offline
local

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Nashville, TN
In reply to:

...So, when we compare "equal build SS amps" there is no discernable difference in sound...


No. As I stated above, people often hear differences between similar SS amps. IMO many of those are true, valid differences that could be proven with instrumentation. However it's unlikely those differences are due to tonal characteristics of the amplifier stage, rather the uncontrolled test scenario and receiver configuration causes it.

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#35785 - 03/05/04 03:15 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Right on joema.

In order to compare any two audio components -- be they speakers, receivers, or amplifiers -- in any meaningful fashion, you have to remove as many variables as possible.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#35786 - 03/05/04 03:37 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I thought this was the thread concerning receivers as opposed to the thread dealing with integrated amps.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#35787 - 03/05/04 03:47 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
truly incredible
keep trying though
one day you might understand

Chess that's almost a haiku!

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#35788 - 03/05/04 03:49 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
"Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!... "

Well, it's pretty obvious that there is "party line" to which posters must conform unless they want to be subject to personal attacks and ridicule.

So, for all of you who know all there is to know about amps, and who "don't trust your ears," screw off.

If your intent was to make the Axiom site an unfriendly and intolerant place, you should be proud.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#35789 - 03/05/04 04:06 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound like Haiku
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
In reply to:

truly incredible
keep trying though
one day you might understand

Chess that's almost a haiku!



Hey you're right Raindance!
How does that go again?
5, 7, 5?
So mine is actually 6, 4, 7 syllables?
Well at least i got the total right.


Perhaps a little rearranging and substitution:

Truly marvelous.
One day you might understand.
Keep trying hard though.


Hmm, not quite as poetic.
How about:

Truly marvelous.
One day you might understand.
Keep concentrating.


Peter? Ray? Ajax? Intrepid? TomT? Bigwill?
Care to take a crack at that one?
I want to see JohnK do haiku.


Edited by chesseroo (03/05/04 04:10 PM)
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#35790 - 03/05/04 04:25 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
Twirly22 Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 70
I'm compelled to agree. This site has jumped the shark. Can't really call it a forum anymore. It's more of a double-blind clique or a scientific circle jerk dominated by individuals who will stridently and truculently shout down anyone who dares voice an opinion or an experience that they view as heresy. What a wonderful combination of hubris and pedantry. Julian Hirsch is not dead. His spirit lives on in this forum.

P.S. Receivers, interconnects, speaker cable, power conditioners, etc., all have an audible effect on the sound. If you can't hear it, TFB.

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#35791 - 03/05/04 04:38 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
LazyJ Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 23
You are going to have a hard time convincing people that things like speaker cable make a difference when Alan (the editor of Sound and Vision magazine) is posting that in scientific blind tests run for many years they have proved that you cannot tell any difference.

Ask him yourself, he had a good article on it you can access if you subscribe to the monthly newsletter.





Edited by LazyJ (03/05/04 04:41 PM)

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#35792 - 03/05/04 05:11 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17753
Loc: NoVA
I've got an H/K 525. Reasons I didn't get that one:
1. It wasn't out when I purchased.
2. It's a Panasonic. Sorry, but I don't equate them with quality in audio equipment. I could easily be wrong, here.
3. It's ugly.
4. My reciever has 8 channel input and output.
5. Logic7.
6. Triple crossover.
7. Multiroom.
8. More than one coaxial digital input/output.
9. I don't know that thing's true output ratings (ie, not Manufacturer's claimed), but the H/K actually performs better (wattage-wise) than the manufacturer claims.

Essentially, it comes down to feature set. And I only paid $500 for it.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#35793 - 03/05/04 05:17 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

Can't really call it a forum anymore.


Twirly,

Everyone here is welcome to his or her own opinions. It's only when people try to pass their opinions off as fact that the "scientific circle jerks" feel it is necessary to point out the flaws in those beliefs. I don't know about you, but I'd trust results from scientifically controlled tests over my own ears in an uncontrolled environment any day.

This Axiom Forum (and it's still a forum) happens to be home to many people who value scientific data over personal opinion. Part of the reason why Axiom speakers are so good is that through their entire development process they've been subjected to test after test after test after test -- many of them double-blind. Would you rather the designers had just trusted their ears and produced an un-neutral speaker tailored to their own personal bias?

If you don't like it here anymore, then GTFO.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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