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#357657 - 10/29/11 11:18 AM Which speakers for "height channel"?
SpenceJT2003 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Wisconsin
I am considering upgrading my old Onkyo TX-NR905 7.1 channel receiver, to a 9.2 capable AVR.

I currently have, what would equate to the Epic Grand Master 350 in a 7.1 channel configuration.

I am considering upgrading my main fronts to a pair of either M50's or M60's at some point, and was wondering if my current M22's would suffice for use as height channel, or should I stick with my M22's, and considering either another set of QS8s (mounted up on my front wall) or M3s for height channel?

Has anyone adopted the multi-polar QS series speakers for height channel? I would think that they might do well, to help open up the height sound-field, and could sound pretty sweet.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Spence
_________________________
Epic 60 - 350 7.1
Mitsubishi L75A91 75" "LaserVue"
Onkyo TX-NR905
Panasonic DMP-BDT500
Dish ViP922

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#357667 - 10/29/11 12:03 PM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: SpenceJT2003]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 500
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi Spence,
The Axiom QS surround speaker model is the speaker of choice for "height" applications. All the virtues and qualities of the QS are sollicited and perfectly exploited in this role.

I'm using a pair of Axiom QS8v3 as Height speakers in my system.
_________________________
jc
Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Recrutement d'Intégrateurs/Installateurs professionnels Québec

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#357684 - 10/29/11 03:36 PM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: Jc]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I agree with JC!

I tried both M22s and QS8s as height speakers and felt the QS8s sounded better. All that comes from the high channels are ambient sounds which the QS8s are better at diffusing out around the room.

Something to consider is trying out wide speakers assuming you have the room for them. Depending on your room size/shape and the layout of your 7.1 speakers and seating you may find as I have that wide speakers offer a more significant improvement in soundstage than height speakers. Also wide speakers come into play during almost everything while the height speakers only really shine when there are ambient sounds like rain, echoes wind whereas the wide speakers are constantly playing something tending to better help the mains blend with the surrounds.

I now only use my height speakers for some music (stuff with lots of ambiance) and use my wide speakers for all other applications.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#357834 - 11/01/11 11:28 AM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: grunt]
Nick B Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 494
It is too bad that receivers are not more flexible. Why can't you have both height and width at the same time? It seems like height and width would be more beneficial in most rooms than the rear surround channels. So why is it not possible to use the channels of amplification in that way, if there are 9 channels on the receiver? I thought that Denon allowed 11.1 if you add an external amp for the height or width. This is a terrible waste of an external amp. Ideally, one would want to add extra amplification for the front left and right speakers. This would free up the extra channels on the receiver for both height and width speakers, but I think that the receivers are not set up to work in this way.

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#357983 - 11/03/11 12:57 PM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: Nick B]
DSR7997 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Houston, Tx
I'm using the M22 on wall for the height speakers and have actually noticed quite a difference especially when playing video games for some reason. Using the Audyssey DSX and the PLII together for the full 9 speaker experience.

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#358001 - 11/03/11 05:01 PM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: Nick B]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Nick B
It is too bad that receivers are not more flexible. Why can't you have both height and width at the same time? It seems like height and width would be more beneficial in most rooms than the rear surround channels. So why is it not possible to use the channels of amplification in that way, if there are 9 channels on the receiver? I thought that Denon allowed 11.1 if you add an external amp for the height or width. This is a terrible waste of an external amp. Ideally, one would want to add extra amplification for the front left and right speakers. This would free up the extra channels on the receiver for both height and width speakers, but I think that the receivers are not set up to work in this way.



The newer line upper end model AVRs from Yamaha allow you to do somewhat what you ask but with their proprietary DSP Soundfield processing,different from Audyssey which is not part of their package. Back a few months ago I bought an RXA(Aventage) 2000 which allows one to use external amps for the front and center along with all the other channels which I have, via the 7.1 pre-outs, connected to outboard amps anyway and this allows me, along with PL11X to run a constant 9.2 soundfield(with the elevated front presence channels, similar in positioning to the height channels) at all times. The top-of the-line 3000 models feature the option of even a further additional two-channel hook-up complementing the rears to create a constant 11.2 configuration. In each case the addition of an external amp, connected via the pre-outs, frees up the internal amps in the AVR to connect these additional speakers so the outboard amp is being used the way it should be.

To tell you the truth, personally, I prefer the Yamaha soundfields, particularly those that cater to movies because they expand the soundstage to make it sound like you are in a larger space than you really are and are fully adjustable to your particular taste and acoustics of your room.

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#405699 - 06/22/14 10:31 AM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: Jc]
SpenceJT2003 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Jc
Hi Spence,
The Axiom QS surround speaker model is the speaker of choice for "height" applications. All the virtues and qualities of the QS are sollicited and perfectly exploited in this role.

I'm using a pair of Axiom QS8v3 as Height speakers in my system.


Thanks for the replies! Having recently upgraded my M22s to a pair of M60s, I think I'll hold to M22s along with the FMs for eventual use as width channels.

I am holding off on my AVR upgrade until Denim releases their X7200 flagship. I may place my M22s atop of the oak towers of my entertainment center for temporary use as height channel one I upgrade my receiver, then eventually swap out with a pair of QS8s and get the M22s onto the stands and into use as width channel.

Space is tight width-wise (I've got a 75" display with oak entertainment towers to each side of it) with only 4 feet or so before the wall to the left, and stairway to the right, so I may be bringing the left side in close, and deploying to a wide position when needed. The wife will be less than pleased.

My only other option for placement of width channel M22s would be to place them behind my M60s, and face them at 90 degrees out and see of Audyssey can adjust them to still provide a fair width channel. ...I doubt this option would work.

Before (M22) and after (M60) pictures of my system are in the Axiom "Wall of Fame", and you'll see my space issue.

Always open to suggestion. Denon's X7200 isn't due out until Dec, so I've got time.

Regards,
Spence


Edited by SpenceJT2003 (06/22/14 10:46 AM)
Edit Reason: I have M60s, not M80s
_________________________
Epic 60 - 350 7.1
Mitsubishi L75A91 75" "LaserVue"
Onkyo TX-NR905
Panasonic DMP-BDT500
Dish ViP922

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#405710 - 06/22/14 09:54 PM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: SpenceJT2003]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10379
Spence, another thing to keep in mind is that the "width" speakers don't necessarily have to be placed along the back wall. The main object is to have the sound coming from a significantly wider(but still frontal)angle than the mains. This can be accomplished by positioning them along the side walls maybe 5' or so forward of the mains and angled sharply inward toward the listening position.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#405717 - 06/23/14 11:43 AM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: JohnK]
SpenceJT2003 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Spence, another thing to keep in mind is that the "width" speakers don't necessarily have to be placed along the back wall. The main object is to have the sound coming from a significantly wider(but still frontal)angle than the mains. This can be accomplished by positioning them along the side walls maybe 5' or so forward of the mains and angled sharply inward toward the listening position.


Thanks John!

Again, once I upgrade my AVR, I'll start to play, but my current thinking is to save my M22s (and FM stands), which I can then pull out and into position as needed.

This is many months down the road. I now need to start plotting as to how to obtain a deal on a third pair of QS8s. ;-)

Regards,
Spence
_________________________
Epic 60 - 350 7.1
Mitsubishi L75A91 75" "LaserVue"
Onkyo TX-NR905
Panasonic DMP-BDT500
Dish ViP922

Top
#405879 - 06/30/14 11:04 AM Re: Which speakers for "height channel"? [Re: SpenceJT2003]
SpenceJT2003 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Wisconsin
Exciting news, with Dolby's Atmos being announced for the likes of Onkyo, Denon, etc.

Upon hearing this news, I am wondering if I will need to re-think my speaker choice and placement options.

Here is my system in its current 7.2 channel configuration.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=1461

The M60's were added in place of the old M22s (which had been on a pair of the FMS-16 stands). My M22s are currently sitting (not connected) atop of the right and left oak towers of my entertainment center.

My current plan is to upgrade to either the Denon X7200 AVR once it becomes available, with the fallback of the Denon X5200 if I find the X7200 to be out of my range.

My M22s will be placed back onto their stands and positioned as "width" channels (with the right hand side to be moved in behind the M60 when not in use as the basement stairs come down to the right of the door).

I had planned to create a pair of matching oak mounts (to the top front of the towers) for a pair of QS8s which were to be used as a height channel.

Now I am thinking that placement of the QS8s will not be optimal for use as an overhead "Atmos" channel. I know that the QS8s will do well at dispersing the audio, but am unsure as to how they will sound being so close to the front soundstage.

I am hesitant in cutting or modifying my acoustically absorbent ceiling, as running an extra pair of cables through the heavily insulated ceiling cavity above will be nearly impossible, and the ceiling is not a "typical" drop-ceiling providing space enough to slide up/over tiles as needed. It is "CeilingMax" and it only allows about 1.5" of space between the tiles and the joists above them.

Ideas? I am currently considering fabrication of a pair of forward protruding "outriggers" (for lack of a better term), which can mount to the top of the towers and angle up and forward to mount the QS8s 3-4 feet forward of the main speakers. It may look ...interesting.

I am totally open to ideas or opinions that do not involve me dismantling my ceiling or entertainment rack to mount speakers and run cables. ;-)


Edited by SpenceJT2003 (06/30/14 11:16 AM)
_________________________
Epic 60 - 350 7.1
Mitsubishi L75A91 75" "LaserVue"
Onkyo TX-NR905
Panasonic DMP-BDT500
Dish ViP922

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