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#360626 - 12/10/11 10:08 PM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: dakkon]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4056
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Thanks alot audiosavant and dakkon. The reason I asked about pro-ject is because the Monitor Audio dealer that is local sells them.

The Paradigm dealer sells Marantz and Audio-Technica turntables. Other than that I am stuck with places like future shop and best buy or the used market.

Needle doctor has a lot of options. They also ship international and via USPS with reasonable shipping rates (insted of UPS) which is a good start.
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#360632 - 12/10/11 11:05 PM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: BlueJays1]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1806
The Dual that i got was made in 87... however, i would not completly discount the used market. The Dual that i have sold for 1,200$ in 87, which was a considerable amount of money back then.. From what i have found, the type of people that have nice turntables that are selling them. Usually take very good care of them. When i bought the one i did, i could tell the guy was still quite attached to it... The reason the guy gave for selling his table was that his wife is having surgery on the 20th, and he needed the money for the deductible, i guess it is a quite expensive surgery.

I dont know if you have every looked at audigon.com or not, but i bought one of my amps off of there. The guy i bought it from is a CPA, that was upgrading his system..


From my experience you will find people who care about their stuff, unlike like someone with a 50$ boombox that is trying to get some quick cash off of CL that doesn't give a crap about his stuff, and just wants to put some coin in his pocket.....

Good luck, so far i am enjoying my turntable and 2 records laugh

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#360643 - 12/11/11 08:28 AM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: audiosavant]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3178
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
audiosavant,

You may simply prefer the euphonic coloration of vinyl playback to digital recording and playback ("euphonic" means "pleasing to the ear") simply because digital produces a more linear--a flatter and smoother frequency response--than the majority of phono cartridges.

The reason this comparison is of an apples/oranges variety is that unless you do a lab measurement, you have no idea of the frequency response variations of a typical phono cartridge, which often yield a slightly rolled-off high end or depressed midrange--softer sounding and more euphonic. But that does not mean analog is "better"; you may simply like the sound of vinyl playback on your cartridge and preamp better. Very few phono cartridges yield linear frequency responses. The reason I recommend the Shure and Grado cartridges is that in the lab measurements performed by AudioScene magazine (I was equipment reviewer for that magazine, and eventually editor of its descendant, Sound Canada and later, Sound&Vision Canada), those cartridges produced almost ruler-flat frequency response from 20 Hz to 15 kHz.

The analog/digital comparisons also ignore magnetic phono preamp response errors, althought better quality preamps tend to be very smooth.

Most analog/digital comparisons ignore the potential errors inherent in analog recording; the comparisons are rarely blind or properly conducted, so your bias emerges.

Here's one to stump you: I have a CD that was burned by Steve Guttenberg (he used to write the occasional "tweak" feature for me when I was senior editor of Audio magazine in New York; now he's a reviewer for Cnet.com and blogger for the latter).

Anyway, he burned a CD for me of the analog output of his ultra-tweak turntable/cartridge/preamp combo. I have some of the same vinyl albums he recorded on the CD. When you sync up the CD of Steve's analog gear to playback of the same tracks directly played from my analog turntable (Shure V15 Type V cartridge and dedicated separate preamp), the CD playback of the vinyl tracks Steve recorded is indistinguishable from the direct vinyl playback. The insertion of the A/D and D/A converters in the digital recording chain adds nothing: no "hard" quality, no degradation whatsoever. It's a straight wire reproduction.

In closing, recording engineers and producers are just as susceptible to psychological bias as the rest of us, unless the comparisons are blind and immediate. Lots of engineers have been convinced by the huckster/promotional skills of Monster Cable and had their studios re-wired. Absurd!

I'm not trying to destroy your enjoyment (or anyone else's) of vinyl playback. If you like it, or prefer it, great. But it ain't better! Technically, it's horse-and-buggy technology compared to digital recording, yet it can work really well (if you can ignore the pitch variations, distortion on inner tracks, compressed dynamics, etc.).

Cheers,
Alan
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#360656 - 12/11/11 11:19 AM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: alan]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11053
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: alan
When you sync up the CD of Steve's analog gear to playback of the same tracks directly played from my analog turntable (Shure V15 Type V cartridge and dedicated separate preamp), the CD playback of the vinyl tracks Steve recorded is indistinguishable from the direct vinyl playback.


I was going to ask if this had been done. Thanks, Alan.
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#360657 - 12/11/11 11:24 AM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: audiosavant]
Jc Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 493
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi,
Interesting ! Technical facts about Vinyl support . . .

Engineering for Vinyl
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Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Epic 80 - 180 - 800 (9.4 with dual centers) powered by dual A1400-8 = AUDIO NIRVANA

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#360666 - 12/11/11 07:15 PM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: Jc]
FireGuy Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 307
Loc: Buffalo, New York
My current HT can't accommodate my Pioneer but I'm sure things are going to change soon and I'll have this unit supported.


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FireGuy
M22V3/M3ti/M2V3/Omega Super 5/Aperion 5C/OutlawLFM1+Sub/Denon AVR1906/YamDVDC750/AS AMP110

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#360669 - 12/11/11 08:06 PM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: FireGuy]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
very nice!
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#360702 - 12/12/11 12:31 AM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10304
If the object is high fidelity, a relatively crude format such as the LP can't match a digital format such as the CD. As long as there are at least two digital samples available at each frequency(which minimum can be the case around 20KHz)the analog waveform is reproduced exactly, since two points mathematically define the sine wave which makes up a frequency in all music. A stylus vibrating in the groove of a record can come close, but is inherently less accurate.
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#360717 - 12/12/11 09:42 AM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
still it is a very pretty turntable.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#360775 - 12/12/11 02:24 PM Re: how many of you guys have a Turntable? [Re: SirQuack]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4056
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Yeah. That would look nice pictured next to some glowing vacuum tubes.
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