Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Upscaling-behind the curve

I'm way behind the curve on the HDTV thing. Just got an HDTV a few months ago, just got my HD TiVo last month. The issue is scaling. The TV has a crappy scaler in it, and my wife is getting frustrated with the TiVo. So can someone explain to me how upscaling works on a modern receiver (which I haven't got yet)?

I'm hoping that the receiver would seamlessly take SD feeds and scale it properly up to HD. I don't care about black sidebars; if the show is 4:3, it's 4:3. If it's 16:9/10, I want it to be that. My Oppo 970 (?) does a great job, but I'd like to see something the same (and as simply) on the TiVo side of things.

Do yourself a favor and just get a DVDO Edge. I have one in my great room set up, and it's probably the most under rated stand alone VP on the market. VP's in AVR's suck.

Where is Chris (ClubNeon) when you need him? PM him to come back!

Anyway, I won't attempt a technical explanation as I would just mess everyone up, however I think you hit the solution by pointing to the AVR. A good upscaler in the AVR should solve all of your source issues. And if 1080p is the source feed to the AVR, it should should simply pass through the signal. That way for DVD's you can let the Oppo do the upscaling and AVR will pass through, but all other sources can be upscaled by a good processor in the AVR.
Are you in the market for a new receiver? I have no idea what receivers might have good upscaling in them.

Let me perhaps frame the situation... it's a 37" 720p HDTV. I don't think a DVDO would a rational choice to feed it.

Ken, are you sure that the TiVo is set up to output 720, and that scaling isn't happening twice?

That is an excellent question, but I'm pretty sure I set it for 720p, although it defaulted to 1080i.

Unless you are looking for perfection, I'm a bit surprised you are having issues at all. What types of things are you seeing?

Basically, I'd like to see 16:0 content that is broadcast on 4:3 channels (oh yes, it's out there) scaled up properly instead of inside a black box. And when stuff is scaled up, be it 4:3 or 16:9, it's pretty ooglay on this TV.

Maybe the problem is that you're trying to watch 16:0 content?

Yeah, that would need SERIOUS scaling!

16:0, 16:9, what's the difference?

Ken the Edge can be bought for under $500 if you look around, which would be about the min you'll spend on a new AVR. It has analogue and HDMI output.

Tivo sucks, apparently.

Well, I also need a new receiver since mine is getting ancient, but maybe I can talk myself into the Edge.

My Cable box does the upconverting for me, I watch 4:3 shows in 16:9 all the time but I have also found the scaler in my 3808 to be acceptable as well. Most of the new avr's out there have pretty good processors in them now, I doubt you would find the PQ unacceptable from any one of them.

Yeah, I just don't get why you're getting crappy quality from a HD Tivo into a 720p TV. That doesn't make sense.

Are you trying to watch 4:3 programs in 16:9 ratio? I can't do that. I prefer the black bars on the sides.

OK, this is SD channels that show 16:9 shows. Since those channels broadcast in 4:3, they letterbox the show. The TV doesn't automatically upscale to 16:9 in this case, so I end up with letterboxes and pillars. Now, I can switch to various aspect modes on the TV, but they're pretty universally bad.

If I watch similar 16:9 content on the Oppo (which is obviously SD, but doesn't come through 4:3), it looks great and apparently is upscaled.

Real HD content on the TiVo looks great.

Does your TV not have a zoom mode that can scale that letterboxed 16x9 image proportionally?

One of the modes (TheatreWide 2) does that, at least for F1 races, but it looks like ass. Highly pixelated. I was hoping for some magic fairy dust to make it look better than that. And also do it automagically.

Ken, I really wouldn't invest too much into trying to make SD channels look better. The DVDO Edge might be your best bet for that, but I personally wouldn't bother. How much longer do you think you'll only be able to watch the F1 races in SD? I'd be looking at some way to watch them in HD instead of trying to cure SD.

Oh, I've got F1 in HD. Doctor Who, on the other hand...

Well, once we clear off the old SD TiVo, I'll see how the new one goes.

Yeah, I wouldn't throw ANY money at that situation, myself.

Thanks for explaining it to me. I get it now.

My wife just explained it to me. It's actually the HD menus on the TiVo that make her eyes hurt, so I'm at a loss, unless she's particularly 60Hz sensitive. In which case, well, I'm screwed.

Making SD look good = futile

That said I'm very happy with the stretch/zoom modes in Media Center (HTPC). But that doesn't really help make a Tivo better.... or maybe it does since it would replace the Tivo.

Trip to Europe/Japan? you could try 50hz, see if she likes that better.

Ken, are you not looking for a new avr? If so many of them have pretty good scalers built in, your fairy dust might just be inside one of them.

Oh, I am, that was really where I was aiming.

My Radiance XS does an amazing job at it. It's most due to the noise reduction features it has, but it also has a no ring scaling algorithm too. Without it, I could not stand to watch SD on my 8' wide screen.

You and your fancy schmancy Radiance ring scaling algorithms.

What'll they think of next? You can now use math to clean your bathtub?

No, but maybe the coffee maker.