Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater VP-180 Soundstage

Nick (B), I really don't have the energy to get into some kind of big back and forth here, but what makes you convinced that:

A) This is positively the case?

B) Even if there ARE some lobing issues that can be measured, that they can even be heard in real-world use?

I mean, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that all the people that have bought VP180s and spent hours listening to them (and reporting that they are amazing!) are wrong, and that there's a fundamental flaw based upon your first-hand knowledge of audio engineering?

QFT.

I have NEVER heard this lobing issue we all hear so much about from horizontal centers. My VP100, 150 and the 180 I borrowed for a week all had the same sound on and off axis. However at my off axis positions the sound was not as loud, usually reading a couple DB lower on the 'ol RS meter. The VP160 does not exhibit this SPL reduction in my room at my farthest off axis position.

I'm not bashing Axiom or saying that all of the folks who purchased the VP180 are wrong and it is not a very good center channel. All that I am saying is that I have had my VP150 for about 5 years now. If I sit one seat cushion off center, I notice a difference in how the center channel sounds compared to being on axis. It isn't that Axiom did a bad job at all designing the speaker. Having a horizontal center channel is a compromise to begin with. But, I like many other people cannot fit the identical bookshelf or floor-standing speakers in the center channel position, so we have to compromise. I would like to upgrade my VP150 sometime in the near future. When I do, it will most likely be with the VP160, which is supposed to help better with off axis listening from a design standpoint. Alan has mentioned that all of the center channel speakers blend well with all of the Axiom line of speakers. The smaller center channel speakers may have a harder time keeping up with the towers, like many here on the forums have said. One of the biggest differences between the VP160 and VP180 is that the 180 is going to have more output, if people have large rooms and/or like to listen to things very loud. I don't need that extra output. And like I said, I am really upgrading the VP150 to help with off axis listening. The tweeter over midrange design in a center channel is supposed to really help with this issue. So I'll be happy just getting the VP160.

When the VP180 was first discussed I raised the lobing question, but after looking at the speaker arrangement (frequency range covered vs separation of the pair handling those frequencies) my impression was that the VP180 design (particularly putting the mids side by side) would go a long way to controlling lobing.

You can hear variations in sound with a VP100 when moving from side to side, but so far I have only really experienced that with test tones (where it's pretty obvious) and a couple of songs during guitar solos where the sound was pretty close to a test tone.

IMO having both VP160 and VP180 designs available is great. It would be impractical to implement a W T/M W layout with M80 speaker complement (the speaker would be more or less square) but was practical for M60 complement.

If VP160 and 180 had come out at the same time I probably would have gone with VP160, but mostly because I had been whining for Axiom to make an M60-sized center for so long and the idea of an M80-sized center channel had never occurred to me

Same experience here Jason with my VP150. I haven't measured the SPL of the 180 at my center position versus off axis but all dialogue is easily heard even from my far right loveseat with the VP180.

Audio hint:
Regardless of the source of audio, produce either by speaker OR by the actual musical instrument, the sound will always change the more a person moves off axis.

Right on.

What's the characteristic axis of a stringed instrument like a cello? Does it even have a direction in which most of its acoustic energy is projected?

Good point. The only thing I can think of that this would apply to would be horns and amplifiers. Maybe acoustic guitars also, but less so.