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#366062 - 02/08/12 02:47 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Cork,

Hmmm, that's a bit odd, but today's electronics are so complex that occasional shut-downs and re-sets do occur and normally shouldn't be cause to worry. I have a six-year-old hi-def Samsung DLP that sometimes just turns itself off arbitrarily. If it happens more frequently, I pull the AC plug, let it "rest" for a while, then it re-sets and works perfectly for many months.

To its credit, my aging hk AV receiver has never needed to be reset.

My boat GPS also re-boots itself sometimes, or gets "stuck" and becomes unresponsive, in which case I click a re-set button.

My Scientific Atlanta HD cable box/DVR also seems to need a re-boot every month or so to keep it responsive.

Your cheapo SPL meter looks OK to me. It's likely as accurate as the cheapo Radio Shack model. Maybe you'll run into a fellow audiophile who owns the Radio Shack meter and you can compare readings (I love comparisons. . .).

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#366869 - 02/16/12 11:00 AM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
It works out that the "shutdown" was partially my fault and partially my inexperience with a zone2. This is my first time having a zone2 and not just B speakers, and I had somehow got myself on Zone 2, so all my button mashes were for an input/output that wasn't connected. Also, the "set-up" it was doing was due to my NAS spinning up, I gather it has some handshaking to do before it starts playing.

On the more fun side. I finally received the SPL meter, and to report back at a -7db receiver setting I seem to be at 92 db all-channel stereo and 87 in stereo (-7 is about the loudest I would normally crank it to). At 0db I'm at 101db in all-ch-st and 97 in stereo. So using JohnK's equations I'm bouncing off of 30w, which matches the expectation. (And thanks again John.)

And I'm with you Alan, I'm dying to get my *very* old H/K A402 fixed (one channel died), but I fear it won't sound as good as my memory says it will.

So with that I'll end this self-indulgent thread. Lesson learned was that I should have listened and bought more power - but I did come in right under the minimum required, so I can hold off until the next generation of receivers gizmos. (I do love the network features of the 1602 though!)

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#366959 - 02/16/12 10:24 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10398
Interesting results pretty much in line with would be expected at reasonably loud home listening levels. You should keep in mind however that the numbers I previously mentioned were per speaker. For example, your 97dB stereo number could result from the two speakers each playing at 94dB simultaneously. When you double the number of speakers playing at a given sound level(doesn't necessarily have to be the identical sounds)the net result is 3dB louder,i.e., if one is at 94dB, two of them result in 97dB and four in 100dB. If that one speaker used 1 watt for 84dB(pretty typical)then it would use 10 watts for 94dB and four of them each playing at 94dB would reach 100dB(about your all-channel stereo number with maybe another dB added for the fifth speaker). The point therefore is that in the situation you described the power per channel may be more like 10 watts rather than 30 watts.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#366984 - 02/16/12 11:56 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Cork, John...

I found this site.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

it will tell you when you are reaching the maximum output of your amp.

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#367318 - 02/19/12 07:28 AM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Thanks dakken, I bookmarked that site. That JohnK guy was making me do logarithmic math for cripes sake! Kidding John, I appreciate the info and should have realized that you were referring to a single speaker. I'm embarrassed to admit that I can't follow your last round of calculations, although the logic makes sense. I'll have to dig up the reference you provided.

An update, I had problems with the NAS connection again, and since this time I'm pretty sure I am doing everything correctly, and I'm on the last day of the return window, I'm going to replace the Marantz.

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#367394 - 02/19/12 10:32 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10398
Here's a site (with calculator)which shows the effect of adding multiple sound sources. You'll note that it's basically adding to the level of the first speaker 10 times the log of the total number of speakers playing simultaneously. For example, since the log of 2 is about 0.3, stereo speakers result in a 3dB increase; for all 5 speakers(log 5 about 0.7), a 7db increase.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#367395 - 02/19/12 10:42 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: Cork
That JohnK guy was making me do logarithmic math for cripes sake!


I saw the site john gave you and i figured there HAD to be an easier way of getting the calculation done without doing the math by hand...

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