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#376301 - 05/16/12 12:19 AM Woofer selection
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
In the custum section i saw you can actually choose between 2 woofer built

1- Standard heavy duty stamped steel woofer basket
or
2- Die-Cast woofer basket.

Actually for 1 6.5 inch woofer there is a 20bucks extra for the Die-Cast. My knowledge are limited unfortunately so i would like to know is the difference between the 2.

Thanks in advance.
_________________________
Nad C356 DAC & C515
Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
Analysis Plus Black Oval 12&10
JRiver 19

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#376305 - 05/16/12 02:48 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
Philippe, the stamped/die-cast question was discussed in previous threads here and here . For relatively small woofers like that, the stamped frame can be made rigid enough to do its job. There's no significant benefit there with the more expensive die-cast version.
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#376306 - 05/16/12 02:50 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
The aluminum basket will be stiffer. In theory, this equates to greater linearity through the woofers range of motion and that translates to less distortion.

In reality, I suspect that Axiom feels that you cannot hear the difference (which I expect they would have validated with blind testing) so they go with a less expensive stamped basket as standard.
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Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#376308 - 05/16/12 03:00 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11200
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
If there's a measurable yet inaudible difference in their stamped vs die-cast baskets, I'd still count that as going against what they said in their response. They said that you could expect identical performance, which I take to mean identical performance, not identical perceived performance. If the die-cast option does indeed translate to more linear output, albeit only measured, I still might be interested in the upgrade.

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#376317 - 05/16/12 10:08 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4456
Loc: Marion, IA
I thought that they did that so that some others could come on here and bash Axiom...

Oh wait, wrong thread...

I'm still super happy with my "standard" stamped ones.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#376330 - 05/16/12 11:25 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
All right thanks and i'll jump in the other threads.
_________________________
Nad C356 DAC & C515
Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
Analysis Plus Black Oval 12&10
JRiver 19

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#376336 - 05/16/12 12:21 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
OH GOD NO DON'T DO THAT.

Just stay here in this happy thread....
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#376340 - 05/16/12 12:45 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6820
Loc: PEI, Canada
Nobody leaves, nobody gets hurt.

From Andrew's quote below, it sounds like you can't go wrong. I'm a believer in the law of diminishing returns so I would feel very comfortable with the more economical model.

From Andrew
" The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option
. "

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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#376351 - 05/16/12 01:45 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
What I seem to recall hearing from Ian quite awhile ago on these was that for very extreme volumes, the die cast would be better.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#376404 - 05/16/12 07:31 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
Well i guess it actually provide something otherwise why offer this "upgrade"
_________________________
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Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
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JRiver 19

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#376406 - 05/16/12 07:44 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
Because people expect it.
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#376411 - 05/16/12 09:18 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
Should they ? wink
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Nad C356 DAC & C515
Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
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JRiver 19

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#376417 - 05/16/12 10:25 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
No they shouldn't, Philippe; if they took the time to study the technology involved. When even the company engineers state that there's no performance benefit, they should take the hint. If they're concerned that visiting "audiophile" friends might insist on opening their speakers up to see if "cheap" stamped frames are used, they should consider going with the added expense. Most of us have better uses for the money.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#376421 - 05/16/12 10:51 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
hehe indeed and i remember now Axiom forum community ain't that friend with the "audiophile" midding smile
_________________________
Nad C356 DAC & C515
Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
Analysis Plus Black Oval 12&10
JRiver 19

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#376429 - 05/17/12 02:54 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: JohnK]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Most of us have better uses for the money.

I guess i am in the minority.....

Philippe, i ordered my LFR's with cast woofers as well as cast tweeters.. the tweeter upgrade is an option, just not listed yet...

I ordered cast... Because, Well, in my opinion they look better... that was the extent of my decision making process.. i think it was an extra 30$ for me to upgrade the woofers, and maybe another 20$ for the tweeters... But honestly, i didn't really care about the extra cash.. When your buying 3,700$ speakers for 2,700$, what's 50 bucks?...


I completely agree that stamped baskets can have the same rigidity as cast, the more folds that you introduce into a metal structure the more rigid it becomes. If it is of a proper thickness with the correct amount of bends, it can be very stiff.

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#379276 - 06/29/12 01:52 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
SpyVSpy Offline
regular

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 7
I picked cast baskets & dual binding posts on the M60's I just ordered not because it will just be stiffer, but the increased openness of the baskets could help with cooling/air flow even though I don't believe these drivers have a vented pole piece. And looks, lol, even if I won't see them per say. That would be an interesting look with slight adjustments to box volume and running them inverted. =p
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#379278 - 06/29/12 02:10 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
spyVspy, the surround of the cast drivers has a different look. If you have your Grills off, this part will be seen. As far as cooling.. My M60's get up to about 500W each, and i have never had any issue them with not being able to handel that power.. Unless your a HUGE amp, due to the impedance of these speakers not going below 6ohms, cooling shouldn't be an issue. My amp is stable to 2ohms @ 1200W, but that doesn't matter due to the lowest impedance of these speakers being no where near 2ohms.


At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy. That's all that really matters. This is a hobby after all smile

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#379317 - 06/29/12 12:42 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: dakkon]
SpyVSpy Offline
regular

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 7
500w... RMS or Peak? What you running?

I'm not that high. They'll be running off of Marantz seperates.


Originally Posted By: dakkon
spyVspy, the surround of the cast drivers has a different look. If you have your Grills off, this part will be seen. As far as cooling.. My M60's get up to about 500W each, and i have never had any issue them with not being able to handel that power.. Unless your a HUGE amp, due to the impedance of these speakers not going below 6ohms, cooling shouldn't be an issue. My amp is stable to 2ohms @ 1200W, but that doesn't matter due to the lowest impedance of these speakers being no where near 2ohms.


At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy. That's all that really matters. This is a hobby after all smile

_________________________
Denon AVR-4311CI--Emotiva XPA-5--M80's--VP180--QS8's--SVS PB13-Ultra--Samsung PN50C7000

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#379318 - 06/29/12 12:47 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
RMS

Krell FPB 300cx

http://www.krellonline.com/assets/support/0162_020_MAN.pdf

I have a marantz amp in my bedroom, it was my first out board amp. I really like it a lot.

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#379320 - 06/29/12 12:52 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: dakkon]
SpyVSpy Offline
regular

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 7
Cool... Yeah, I'm actually building my own Zaph|Audio ZA5 system and have a boat load of drivers down in my office. I'm just waiting to get the cabinets done, but I could resist trying out a set of these.

Originally Posted By: dakkon
RMS

Krell FPB 300cx

http://www.krellonline.com/assets/support/0162_020_MAN.pdf

I have a marantz amp in my bedroom, it was my first out board amp. I really like it a lot.

_________________________
Denon AVR-4311CI--Emotiva XPA-5--M80's--VP180--QS8's--SVS PB13-Ultra--Samsung PN50C7000

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#379356 - 06/29/12 11:23 PM Re: Woofer selection [Re: dakkon]
SpyVSpy Offline
regular

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 7
I asked bout upgraded tweeters and there is no option for that. So either they 86'd it, or I dunno.


Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Most of us have better uses for the money.

I guess i am in the minority.....

Philippe, i ordered my LFR's with cast woofers as well as cast tweeters.. the tweeter upgrade is an option, just not listed yet...

I ordered cast... Because, Well, in my opinion they look better... that was the extent of my decision making process.. i think it was an extra 30$ for me to upgrade the woofers, and maybe another 20$ for the tweeters... But honestly, i didn't really care about the extra cash.. When your buying 3,700$ speakers for 2,700$, what's 50 bucks?...


I completely agree that stamped baskets can have the same rigidity as cast, the more folds that you introduce into a metal structure the more rigid it becomes. If it is of a proper thickness with the correct amount of bends, it can be very stiff.

_________________________
Denon AVR-4311CI--Emotiva XPA-5--M80's--VP180--QS8's--SVS PB13-Ultra--Samsung PN50C7000

Top
#379361 - 06/30/12 12:12 AM Re: Woofer selection [Re: Philippe]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
hrm, i don't know man... I guess i will see what the LFR's have in them when they arrive.

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