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Lampshade said: "Reference level is loud."

i know some people think Ref. Level is loud because they say
105/115 dB sound are very loud, but the fact is those levels are only heard once in a while. Some even say that watching a movie at 115 dB is very bad for one's hearing, when in fact we are often subjected to noises above 100dB in our daily activities and we don't use or need ear plugs because those noises are very transitory. it's the same for movies, those peaks are very short lived, so there is no danger for the ears.

who would believe that there is a scene in Super 8 that measures 117 dB's and we're not even aware of it, because it does not sound very loud, being of short duration and way down low in frequencies;
it's when the "alien" pushes the bus on the road.
if the same sound was to last for many seconds, then it would seem much louder to our ears.

distortion in the reproduction or a very reflective room can make it seem like the sound is much too loud to bear.


those numbers (105/115 dB)are the maximum allowed, and the great majority of the time, the levels will be much lower, oftentimes even at the barely heard levels, like background noise like clock ticking, soft wind that makes tree leaves move on the ground...etc.

so, we should say that 115 dB CAN be loud, it depends...

I mostly agree, JB, but a transitory sound of sufficient DB can certainly impair one's hearing, temporarily, or forever. Take a sledgehammer to a cast iron bathtub in a 5 x 6' space w/o ear protection and see what I mean. A plam-nailer in a 2' crawl space can be pretty awesome, too!

i (mostly) agree with you too. ;-)

Well, crap! That's no fun, JB! Where do you suggest we go from here?

my suggestion would be
1: to have a good time watching/listening to movies at "realistic" levels, cause Reference Level is not always adhered to by the publishers.
2: petition those publishers in order to get the real Reference Level in every movie.

Sorry, JB, that's not what I meant. What I was implying is that there is no fun if we mostly agree, so what to do about that? How do you feel about NAFTA? (Kidding, please, kidding!)

sorry Bob, but i've tried and tried and still can't understand the humor in this. :-(

what i can say though is that i don't feel anything about NAFTA, but i do feel about the GF. good enough for you? ;-)

JB, the correct answer would have been "No Bob, you're wrong".

JB, do not fret. You are in the company of some excellent people. Oh, no no, not around here, of course, but nonethless.

Yes, it was correct for Joe to call me "wrong." Thank you, Joe.

I think that there are variables here that are still somewhat dependent on other factors. It is mentioned that that the studios don't follow the same exacting practice when mixing. Well shoot, aren't they the ones that we are trying to model? That sucks...

Also, I am starting to wonder if Audyssey (for me anyway) sets a realistic level for "reference" when used. By that I mean, in an uncalibrated system "0" means nothing. Take a pair of M80s, play them at "0" in a 10x10 room, and hang on... Put those same M80s played at the same "0" level in a gymnasium, and (besides horrible echo) it is much more tolerable because of the volume of air to fill with sound.

So I wonder if my Onkyo 709, when I calibrate it with Audyssey, it creating a "proper" '0' reference level, and adjusting the volume up or down to get '0' to be at the right level for my room? I don't have a SLP meter, so I can't check it myself.