Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater What electronics do you use?

I suggested starting another thread on this, so I might as well go ahead and do it. If anybody hasn't read it yet, this is stemming from the "interconnects thread", and relates to (among 1000 other topics) music performance from a DVD player.

I'm using a JVC DVD-A player (damned if I can remember which model), a soon-to-be-replaced Technics single tray CD player, and the Arcam AVR100. Speakers are M40s and VP150 across the front, M3s in the rear, and an AX500a for bass.

The Technics was collecting dust in my closet until I went to Peak Audio in Halifax to audition (and ultimately buy) the Arcam receiver. It was suggested to me that even the lowliest CD player would be better than a DVD player for 2-channel music. This was demonstrated to me in the store, and I confirmed this with my own components later at home. Even the lowly 15-year-old Technics outperformed the DVD player in analog, and it's rapidly dying (the tray opens properly about 30% of the time).

Have people found the opposite to be true with their setups?

Ah crap.
Sorry fhw.
I didn't see your post before i started up another post on the topic.
Well allow me to post here what i never posted there:

My setup:
Onkyo DS797
Acoustic Research optical toslink
old Technics cd player (component in a bookshelf system)
Denon UD-M30 cd player (all in one style normally used in our kitchen)
also tested: Panasonic Rv32 dvd single tray
Speakers: M60s

The Technics lost badly. The Panasonic sounded bright but i was using the toslink cable (as previously discussed) so i want to test it again with the analog connections. However, using the toslink, the Denon sounded much smoother than the Panasonic. I'm not sure why if the toslink cable would force the use of the receiver DAC for both players but hey, i'm just going by what i heard.

DVD/CD player: JVC 502 or somehting like that
Integrated amp: Denon 1602
speakers:
M22 Ti
M3 Ti
VP 150
EP 125

the Denon does all sound deceding, I send the info through a fiber optic. I have tried the JVC to decode CD audio and I did not like the sound.

Hi guys

Because the (broad based) question was asked.... and because there are two different post locations to get into this... I just want to join in here and add something slightly different before this gets too far down the screen....

Since I have not been seriously auditioning any new CD or DVD players, I can't make comments as to which sounds better. Since my old CD changer went belly up about 8 months ago, I have been letting my Sony DVD player do double duty. I just want to comment on something slightly different and it may seem odd....

When it comes to physical design (attractiveness), features, ergonomics, and layout/usefulness of remote controls, why is it that Sony seems to (overall) do a better job than anyone else (like Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc)?

I realize this is purely MY opinion/observation, and if you disagree, that's OK. But I have been looking at/using/and even selling hifi gear for a long time and that's my take. Problem is, I think that their build/sound quality is usually just average except for their ES line - which has (over the years) shown to be pretty good in both build and sonic quality.

If Denon or Onkyo would just hire their industrial designers and improve their looks, features and REMOTEs, then I think they would have unbeatable stuff!

OK Now back to the regularly scheduled posts....

Randyman

I don't find anything wrong with the Onkyo remotes, its the Denon and lower model Marantz remotes I have a problem with.

Fhw and Chesseroo, there's no technical reason for a competently designed CD/DVD player not to handle both equally well. Well-designed modern players have a dual laser arrangement, one optimized for CD, one for DVD. The relatively few DVD player reviews that include full lab results show excellent audio performance with CDs, fully comparable to separate CD players.

i have the toshiba sd-2705 cds it replaced a yamaha cd only it works great

Oh i hear ya.
I don't know about sony in particular but that 'colour' black has really go to go.

Do you realize how hard it is to not find anything in black as an option?!

I'm counting on the new Panasonic CV52 having a good audio and vid DAC.
I just checked out the website specs and in the least, it has some of the latest specs possible. But the quality now is yet to be ascertained.
I'll let you know once i buy it. Possibly tomorrow.

An update to my components.
I went out yesterday and bought a Panasonic CV52 DVD and a Hitachi 725U DVD. Sometime this week, one of them will go back.
I also took the M22s i was evaluating and set them up as surround speakers to the M60s in the front.
Then i watched Black Hawk Down.

THe movie was very fatiguing. I felt like i had been sitting in an hour long firefight. But the action aside, i can't say i was too impressed with the surround sound. The movie sound was fine, i am referring to the arrangement with my equipment.
It is taking awhile to get all the tweaking done right but my most simple observation so far is that the M22s were too much for direct surrounds. I can tune their outputs down a bit and move their locations somewhat but even with using several of the Onkyo's surround formats, i just didn't find anything was working. The M22s still seemed to take too much of the sound stage away from the M60s. Gunshots always sounded like they were coming from my left/right ear instead of whizzing from front to back or whizzing from left to right (as SOME of the effects should have done).
I'm going to do some more tweaking today but i am hoping the QS8s i ordered might take away some of this direct sound and diffuse it a little more obscurely.
I would however consider using one of the m22s as a rear centre channel laid on its side.

It will be interesting to get your "review" comparing those DVD/CD players. I notice the Panasonic doesn't do DVD-Audio (or SACD) but it DOES have some sort of nifty "96kHz/24-bit PCM audio or the hypnotic Dialogue Enhancer" (according to a Web page description) Heh Heh!

Once you are out of your "hypnotic" trance, give us an update!!!

Randyman

chesseroo,

(oops forgot to add this...)
I'd be willing to bet that once you get those QS8s set up, (in place of the M22s for surround) you will not only LOVE their sound, but Black Hawk Down will even be enjoyable!

Let us know.....

Randyman

Hey chesseroo,

Let us know if you get the desired results from the QS8s.

Thanks,

CAV104

I will post a personal review soon of the Panasonic CV52 dvd and Hitachi 725U dvd players along with my opinions on the home theatre setup using the vp150, ep350 and qs8s once they arrive.
Most likely after or during the coming weekend.

STay tuned.

HT set up:
Onkyo TX DS797, Denon PMA 500V 2 channel amp for channels 6+7, Merak MC6H center, Michaura M665 tower fronts, Axiom M50 sides, Mission 77ds bipole backs, Velodyne CHT100 sub, Toshiba SD9200 DVD-A player, Sony 53" HDTV.

I'm experimenting by moving the M50s to the side and the Michaura M665 to the front position. The M665s may be comparable to the M60, but is a smaller speaker.

Sounds very nice!!! The DVD-A is also great for music in 2 or multi channel mode. Most of the DVD-A recordings I've bought are junk, especially those from AIX - favorites like Peppino D'Agostino on guitar. You've never heard of him and for good reason. However, try the Willie Nelson Night & Day DVD-A and have your third eye opened.

My stereo system:
Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT 5 watt tube integrated amp, Velodyne CHT80 sub, and swapping between Axiom M3Tis and Michaura M55 speakers. Now sourced by an Ah! Njoeb Tjoeb CD player. Previously a 9 year old JVC which sounded much better than the highly reviewed Cambridge D500SE CD player. I had to spend an arm and a leg to do better than the JVC, but the JVC could stack 6 CDs, and the Ah! takes them one at a time.

Electronics
-------------
Rotel 1066 pre/pro
Outlaw 770 amp
HTPC - handles DVD, HDTV, and music playback; using M-Audio Delta 410 soundcard (24/96 capable)

Speakers
------------
M60ti mains
VP150 center
M3ti surrounds
QS8 center back

For music, I'm using WinAMP. The CD-Reader plugin gives me digital extraction for CD-audio, and the MAD plugin gives me 24-bit MP3 decoding for my Mp3 collection. I'm also using the SSRC upsampling plugin to resample to 96khz. This setup gives me an all-digital 24/96 signal from the source to my pre/pro, and sounds quite good. I don't have any experience with high-dollar CD players that supposedly have great DAC's, but I'm quite happy with the DAC's in my 1066.

chesseroo,

Quick question regarding your experience with Black Hawk Down, did you find that you needed to turn the volume up higher to get the effect you expected from the film's sound? I know it's not in DTS, but my normal DD listening volume had to be raised a bit ("70" or so on my onkyo vice the normal "63"). My usual DVD references (S&V HT Tune Up, etc) all sound normal (too loud at 70) for DD, but BHD needed more volume for my taste.

Good luck with your set-up this weekend.

lando

Have you looked at Rotel cd changers? I heard (from a few people) they are exceptionally good

For the Onkyo 797 i've found that i can't play anything under 50 or 55 using the absolute volume option (i.e. max at 100). In fact, to play music or movies at the levels i prefer i've had to set the volume around 65-75 which i found to be quite surprising.
Offhand i didn't notice a difference with Black Hawk Down however i did not watch another dvd until the next day so i can't say i conciously remember any volume issue.
Great movie if you want to go to bed shell shocked though. I swear i had battle fatigue myself after the first hour.

I thought Black Hawk Down sounded just fine on my Onkyo 797 at about the 50 range. Then again I live in an apartment and much more than that will get the neighbors in an uproar. I rarely need to turn a movie past 50 to get clear sound out of DVD movies and great bass (not the kind that rattle you, but good). No problems with voices from the center or surround effects.

Room: 15' x 15' with a concrete floor

b_man

Thanks for the comparison info for Black Hawk Down. I'd just viewed bits and pieces of it until last night when we had some friends over. They hadn't heard our set-up before, and they were impressed with what a good HT system adds to the movie viewing experience. We had to "decompress" after BHD with a few cuts from the Eagles "When Hell Freezes Over" DVD.

I found that 70 was the preferred volume for BHD, though it felt a lot louder as it became later in the night. We're in an end-unit townhome with a 20 X 18 primary viewing area. Luckily, our neighbors are out of town on vacation and we didn't have to worry about bothering/scaring anyone with this movie.

All in all, great flick to show off a HT system though we probably won't watch it again. We got our fill of it last night, and the movie did well to fill in some of the gaps of what we missed or didn't hear about back when this took place in '93.

lando