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#384386 - 10/19/12 10:37 AM Need advice on surround speakers
DanielBMe Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
Hi guys,

I have a question on my QS4ís. I have two for my surrounds. I feel Iím not really getting much rear sound or envelopment from them. Currently, from my center seat, one sits about 4 to 5ft to the right of me and about 3-4 ft above ear level and the other speaker sits about 6 ft to the left and 3-4 ft above ear level. I did calibrate the distance and level with my 3808ís audyssey. I even bumped of the level a bit. Iím wondering if the distance is too far? Would QS8ís be any better or would on wall M2ís or M3's be better? The speakers are mounted at a 45degree angle behind me from the center seatÖif that makes sense.

Any asistance is appreciated!


Edited by DanielBMe (10/19/12 10:38 AM)
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#384389 - 10/19/12 11:08 AM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: DanielBMe
Hi guys,

I have a question on my QS4ís. I have two for my surrounds. I feel Iím not really getting much rear sound or envelopment from them. Currently, from my center seat, one sits about 4 to 5ft to the right of me and about 3-4 ft above ear level and the other speaker sits about 6 ft to the left and 3-4 ft above ear level. I did calibrate the distance and level with my 3808ís audyssey. I even bumped of the level a bit. Iím wondering if the distance is too far? Would QS8ís be any better or would on wall M2ís or M3's be better? The speakers are mounted at a 45degree angle behind me from the center seatÖif that makes sense.

Any assistance is appreciated!


Quite frankly, when it comes to sound balance of the speakers and making sure it is as accurate as possible, I would tend to use an external test disc played through my player along with an SPL meter. This gives one a somewhat more accurate presentation of what is actually coming out of the movie or for that matter, any disc. Obviously the surrounds(rear or sides) should not be overwhelming but, when necessary and in some, but not all movies, the sound should be enveloping.

From my own experience with three different AVR's I always found, in general, the surround speakers measured through the test tones from the AVR were always about one to one and a half db quieter than they should be compared to the tones coming from an external disc.

If you can, try this and make a comparison. It also could be the Audyssey is rolling off some of the highs and/or adjusting some of the frequencies which would also dampen what you may or may not be hearing. Calibration systems like Audyssey don't necessarily work well in every instance and in every room and in some cases, can make things worse.

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#384393 - 10/19/12 12:36 PM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
[quote=casey01]
From my own experience with three different AVR's I always found, in general, the surround speakers measured through the test tones from the AVR were always about one to one and a half db quieter than they should be compared to the tones coming from an external disc.
[quote]

Iíve found the same thing. Add to it that the microphone and likely SPL meter are measuring the 360 degree sound the same if you are pointing them straight up but our hearing from behind isnít as sensitive at toward the front so you lose some there too.

As for the distance of 4-6 feet IMO thatís about perfect for developing a side/rear sound field. Other than the above issue of sound level speaker placement is something you should play around with if you have the space.

I would also experiment with seating placement. Iíve found that often plays a bigger roll in how the sound field envelops you than just speaker placement.
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#384396 - 10/19/12 02:41 PM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
DanielBMe Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
When I get home tonight I'll try upping the speaker level for them by 1db. I think I already raised them by half. hopefully that's all it is.
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#384422 - 10/20/12 08:48 AM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
Surround sound is a funny thing. Its when you think you don't hear them that they are set up and working properly.

I went through the same thing, setting up the speakers with a mic and db meter and then bumping the surrounds because I 'couldn't hear them'.

In the end, you will realize that how your surrounds sound, and to what extend you hear them depends very much on the sound track for a movie.

I remember one scene in Casino Royale where Bond walks out of the front lobby of a casino onto the street. The surround effect was amazing. You go from a quiet lobby with the sound field in front of you, to the noisy street with the sound around and behind you AND, it is a seamless transition!

The scene in Master and Commander where they beat to arms and you can hear sailors running across your ceiling is another example of where the surrounds stand out.

Such scenes are, however, few and far between. Most of the time, the effect of surrounds is much more subtle, but still there.

I would actually recommend those two scenes as a good test for surround setup.
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#384427 - 10/20/12 10:13 AM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1269
Loc: Quebec, Canada
there's another one similar to the one you refer in Casino Royale.

it's in The Black Swan, where Nina leaves the club and the camera follows her to the street.
very nicely done and also a seamless transition.

by the way, daniel, whatever the system you have, you should never hear the speakers, they should disappear from the room, and sometimes the room walls will also disappear, depending on the audio quality of the material you're playing.


Edited by J. B. (10/20/12 10:16 AM)
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#384428 - 10/20/12 10:47 AM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
What surround mode are you using, for ex., Dobly Digital PLIIx + Cinema is what you want to use for 7.1 movies. If BluRay or DTS track it will show the high resolution option version on the display.
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#384429 - 10/20/12 10:53 AM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: SirQuack]
DanielBMe Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
Not sure what exactly you mean by "which surround mode". I have my Denon set to Standard, then when playing a blu ray I usually play the hd track. If watching a standard dvd I usually play the DTS track Dolby Digital.

I have both movies so will give them a try. I bumped up the volume on my rears last night so will give it a test.

For Casino Royale, you wouldn't know what chapters those scenes are in would you?
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M22's v3, 2 x EP500v3, VP150v3, QS4's, Denon 3808CI

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#384433 - 10/20/12 03:09 PM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
For Casino Royale, I don't know. Its when he gets poisoned/drugged. Somewhere in the second half?
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#384434 - 10/20/12 03:19 PM Re: Need advice on surround speakers [Re: DanielBMe]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10878
Loc: Central NH
Jeeeez, Fred. It's Vegas! People are getting poisoned and drugged every five minutes! smile
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