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#388227 - 01/11/13 07:20 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Strider53]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 804
I remember reading a while back that he took one of his expensive, cables - power cable or speaker wire, I can't remember - over to a friend's system. With his magic cable, the owner was absolutely 'floored' by the improvement in sound, akin to having a 'new amplifier' in the system or some BS like that.

It was the worst case of 'placebo effect' that I've heard of...

TAM

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#388229 - 01/11/13 08:38 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Strider53]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Whitehorse YT
This thread reminded me of the esoteric wiring I received.I was given a 3 metre set of expensive rca phono cables. They came with some literature that outlined the break in and went on and on about how they would sound good initially then after X hours they would sound worse and then better and so on until after 300 hrs or some such horse hockey.<< how the hell would I remember what the hell things sounded like from the time of purchase and the 300 hr mark , seriously. I've used some pretty crappy wire over the years and even when I replaced the small so called inferior wire (which was often 2 or 3 pieces twisted together) I heard no difference. Seriously at what point in the chain does the wire become insignificant. If I put high grade wire from receiver to speakers but don't upgrade the wire inside the speaker then how have I made an improvement. These guys are just selling snake oil, and preying on the gullible imho. You could probably blind fold me and change my speakers and I would be hard pressed to tell smile
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.

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#388230 - 01/11/13 09:17 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Socketman]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 732
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Socketman
This thread reminded me of the esoteric wiring I received.I was given a 3 metre set of expensive rca phono cables. They came with some literature that outlined the break in and went on and on about how they would sound good initially then after X hours they would sound worse and then better and so on until after 300 hrs or some such horse hockey.<< how the hell would I remember what the hell things sounded like from the time of purchase and the 300 hr mark , seriously. I've used some pretty crappy wire over the years and even when I replaced the small so called inferior wire (which was often 2 or 3 pieces twisted together) I heard no difference. Seriously at what point in the chain does the wire become insignificant. If I put high grade wire from receiver to speakers but don't upgrade the wire inside the speaker then how have I made an improvement. These guys are just selling snake oil, and preying on the gullible imho. You could probably blind fold me and change my speakers and I would be hard pressed to tell smile


This is the never ending debate about cables and the money spent on them, most often quite needlessly. I have a friend who has managed a mid-high end A/V store for over 16 years and he always makes a point of reminding me that the expensive cables they sell compared to any other products in the store provide them by a country mile, with their largest profit margins.

By the way, I can't believe that this Skiing Ninja clown is still in business. The last time I checked out his website which was quite awhile ago, none of the speaker companies that he does these so-called "upgrades" to endorse his product and more often than not, his changes void the warranty. I believe back a few years ago Axiom was on the list and I guess they told him to remove the name, hence, him being ticked off.


Edited by casey01 (01/11/13 09:26 PM)

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#388231 - 01/11/13 09:38 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: casey01]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 732
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: casey01
Originally Posted By: Socketman
This thread reminded me of the esoteric wiring I received.I was given a 3 metre set of expensive rca phono cables. They came with some literature that outlined the break in and went on and on about how they would sound good initially then after X hours they would sound worse and then better and so on until after 300 hrs or some such horse hockey.<< how the hell would I remember what the hell things sounded like from the time of purchase and the 300 hr mark , seriously. I've used some pretty crappy wire over the years and even when I replaced the small so called inferior wire (which was often 2 or 3 pieces twisted together) I heard no difference. Seriously at what point in the chain does the wire become insignificant. If I put high grade wire from receiver to speakers but don't upgrade the wire inside the speaker then how have I made an improvement. These guys are just selling snake oil, and preying on the gullible imho. You could probably blind fold me and change my speakers and I would be hard pressed to tell smile


This is the never ending debate about cables and the money spent on them, most often quite needlessly. I have a friend who has managed a mid-high end A/V store for over 16 years and he always makes a point of reminding me that the expensive cables they sell compared to any other products in the store provide them by a country mile, with their largest profit margins.

By the way, I can't believe that this Skiing Ninja clown is still in business. The last time I checked out his website which was quite awhile ago, none of the speaker companies that he does these so-called "upgrades" to endorse his product and more often than not, his changes void the warranty. I believe back a few years ago Axiom was on the list and I guess they told him to remove the name, hence, him being ticked off.


An update, I took the liberty of checking the website, strangely enough, the Axiom logo still appears, however, when you click on it it states "products no longer available.

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#388232 - 01/11/13 09:45 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: casey01]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10672
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: casey01
By the way, I can't believe that this Skiing Ninja clown is still in business.

He probably does something else for income, and uses the one mod he does each year as extra income and a way to make others think he's "in business" and an expert.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#388234 - 01/11/13 10:08 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Strider53]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10305
Jeff, ditto the above comments. This is one of the outfits polluting the audio industry which seeks to sell stuff like magic cables and to appeal to those who lust to tweak the untweakable.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#388235 - 01/11/13 10:21 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Strider53]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10393
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Most of the Ninja's work was done on av123's speakers and those that followed him from there loved his changes from what I remember.

I did the one and only (as far as I know) Ninja upgrade to my M22's and they did indeed change the sound(no surprise), but I didn't think it was better, it was simply different, not my cup of tea as they say. According to Sean the new crossover point was moved farther up the FR to reduce ringing on the 5 1/4 drivers and so on, he was all about the measurements. Once I was done with the XO's I pulled them out and sent them to Ian for his impressions, measurements etc. I am sure my original postings about this experiment are still kicking around here. I still have the crossovers out in my garage storage bins. I want to make some speakers one day to use them in.

Personally I thought the ninja was just having some fun playing around with the crossovers and making some already good sounding designs sound/measure better to himself and his help, all the while hoping to make a business out of it. I saw nothing wrong with his desire to make these changes but also felt he had some questionable/unprofessional dealing/tactics/episodes online.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
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My HT

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#388239 - 01/11/13 10:50 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: jakewash]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 732
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Most of the Ninja's work was done on av123's speakers and those that followed him from there loved his changes from what I remember.

I did the one and only (as far as I know) Ninja upgrade to my M22's and they did indeed change the sound(no surprise), but I didn't think it was better, it was simply different, not my cup of tea as they say. According to Sean the new crossover point was moved farther up the FR to reduce ringing on the 5 1/4 drivers and so on, he was all about the measurements. Once I was done with the XO's I pulled them out and sent them to Ian for his impressions, measurements etc. I am sure my original postings about this experiment are still kicking around here. I still have the crossovers out in my garage storage bins. I want to make some speakers one day to use them in.

Personally I thought the ninja was just having some fun playing around with the crossovers and making some already good sounding designs sound/measure better to himself and his help, all the while hoping to make a business out of it. I saw nothing wrong with his desire to make these changes but also felt he had some questionable/unprofessional dealing/tactics/episodes online.


As with other companies that claim upgrades make an audible improvement in sound, I have looked on these sites such as "Ninja's" and with these alleged better crossovers and costs to do them often exceeding $500, I can't help but keep asking the same question over and over again, if one wants better performance, why not just apply this money toward better speakers?

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#388240 - 01/11/13 11:35 PM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: casey01]
Adrian Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6557
Loc: It's all about the location.
Originally Posted By: casey01
I can't help but keep asking the same question over and over again, if one wants better performance, why not just apply this money toward better speakers?

Then Ninja will try to convince you that your "better" speakers are also not that good, but for a small fee...
_________________________
A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.

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#388241 - 01/12/13 12:06 AM Re: SurfNinja Website? [Re: Strider53]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10393
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
That is kind of the idea, you are making your speakers better by installing brand X crossover (or whatever upgrade)and hopefully achieving the perfect, or at least better sound for less than the next actual "better" speaker ie. I can't afford Paradigm S8's but I could afford $1000 upgrade to my M80s if they gave me nearly the same sound. Kind of like adding performance parts to a car, yes they make a difference, but is it actually better? If it measured better on the dyno then it must be better (ok, not quite the same but hopefully you get the idea). Those crossovers I tried measured better on the graphs but to MY ears they were not better, just different.

Going back to the performance parts, why put them on, why not just buy a better performing car? People like to play and tweak. People like/need to make money, other people marry these things together and produce various products for others to spend money on so they can tweak, not all products out there actually improve performance, as they say..... buyer beware.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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