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#391473 - 03/27/13 02:09 PM New Camaro Z28
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
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#391475 - 03/27/13 02:22 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I like the front, but the back looks like a Honda Prelude, and all of the modern muscle cars are just too damn fat. Too high off the road, too much plastic, and too tall overall.
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#391477 - 03/27/13 03:16 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: Ken.C]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6387
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
too tall overall.

Not to me and Peter.

Seriously, I sat in a Camaro and thought the windows were about half as tall as they should be. I felt like I was looking out gun slits.

*Sigh*, the trade offs of style and function.
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#391478 - 03/27/13 03:21 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10856
Loc: Central NH
Are "Gun Slits" an available option on some cars?

I'm carrying around more anger than I should!
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#391479 - 03/27/13 03:26 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10856
Loc: Central NH
Regarding the topic, though: I'd take the 300lbs back for a stereo, A/C and carpet in the trunk.
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#391480 - 03/27/13 03:47 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8280
Loc: Tacoma
I agree with youse guys.

Anybody spending the kind of money it's going to take to get that powertrain is probably going to want a stereo. Fer chrissake. I mean, if you're going to go after weight THAT HARD, shouldn't you pull out the rear seat, power windows, power locks, et. al?

And yeah, the rear end is unforgivable.
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#391481 - 03/27/13 03:51 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10856
Loc: Central NH
I like the rear end.

And I'm usually a "leg guy".
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#391482 - 03/27/13 04:57 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
It's a purpose built car for the track fellas.
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#391483 - 03/27/13 05:08 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I like it. After I win the lottery I will have one.
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#391486 - 03/27/13 05:18 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4428
Loc: Marion, IA
Originally Posted By: michael_d
It's a purpose overweight, too high center of gravity, call it something with great heritage to make more money built car for the track fellas.



I fixed it. wink
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#391490 - 03/27/13 06:48 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
Sigh.... Always the na-sayer's here.

I agree it's still a fat bitch, but they are heading in the right direction. I've driven plenty of Camaro's over the years, and they do quite well. The racers always look for Camaro's to modify for track use because they do so well, but do not cost an arm and a leg.

What do you take to the track Nicky?
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#391491 - 03/27/13 07:23 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4428
Loc: Marion, IA
Originally Posted By: michael_d


What do you take to the track Nicky?


LOL I know, I know. I think that the car looks great, but in the wording they talk about the large 300 pound weight reduction, but then also comment that the car was a bit "portly" already, so what... It is now down to the weight it should have been to start?

And it is clear that outside of some minor body changes (most people wouldn't know the difference in the Z/28 vs other Camaros except for the black parts that have been added.

GM's recipe for their "success" is to make a vehicle that weighs what the regular model should, shove a larger engine in it, put on a bigger spoiler, diffusers, side rocker "enhancements", slicker (as in less tread, not slippery) tires, and bam... You have their version of a track car.

I think that the Camaro deserves better treatment than it got. They started with a great looking car with good performance, and rushed on the concept to stir hype about it.

What is the price going to be for it?

Oh, and if I had the funds for a track car that is amazingly fun to drive? Ariel Atom, hands down. Street legal version with lights and such. A well equipped one would blow the socks off of the Camaro on the track, handle better, and be more visceral (exciting) for probably a similar price point. The Atom also has no radio and no A/C like the Camaro. smile

I would end up chipping the front diffusers on the Camaro trying to drive it around town.

Again, I am not slamming the Camaro as it is one of my favorite looking cars at the moment. cool

I just think that GM still needed to churn some more hours in R&D before putting the Z/28 nameplate on it.
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#391493 - 03/27/13 08:39 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
It's actually heavier than that too... It's 300 pounds lighter than the ZL1, but only 100 or so lighter than the base SS.

The thing I like about it, is the engine. The LS7. Same as in the Z06 vette, and not a de-tuned version either. Until you drive a car with this engine, you just can't appreciate the torque band and just how fast it revs to 7100 rpm.

Those Ariel's look fun. I wouldn't swap my Z out for one though. It's plenty visceral for me. Scares the piss out of me just about every time I take it out. I do not turn off the active handling, ever.
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#391494 - 03/27/13 09:29 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
It's impressive that they finally stuck a Vette engine in a Camaro without detuning it, but I'm afraid my definition of "track car" is pretty tight: Until I see it in LM GT spec, I'm not interested. That's part of why I like Vettes so much! wink

And Porsche GT3s. 'Cause daaaaamn.
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#391495 - 03/27/13 10:10 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: Ken.C]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10376
I like the back end treatment(except for the hideous spoiler)better than the front. Maybe that's because I had a Honda Prelude.
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#391496 - 03/27/13 10:27 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5820
Loc: Some random location
Car?

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#391514 - 03/28/13 11:17 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I'm a Mustang fan and I really like this latest generation of Camaro, although this particular one really should be lighter than it is if it was designed for the track. I am a little surprised they were not able to shave more weight from this frame/body.
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#391522 - 03/29/13 09:55 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: nickbuol]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
...
Oh, and if I had the funds for a track car that is amazingly fun to drive? Ariel Atom, hands down. Street legal version with lights and such. A well equipped one would blow the socks off of the Camaro on the track, handle better, and be more visceral (exciting) for probably a similar price point. The Atom also has no radio and no A/C like the Camaro. smile
...


Huge +1 on that Nick. That is hands down my dream car. I regularly daydream about tinkering with that car in my garage, then driving it out to the local track, doing some hot laps there and then driving it home. It is not easy to get it street legal where I live unfortunately. It's like a motorcycle with 4 wheels which is right up my alley.
Realistically I'll probably just end up doing the Atom driving experience at some point, but it's nice to dream.

BTW, I think that Camaro looks great, back end and all.
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In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#391523 - 03/29/13 10:27 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6387
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Hey, I looked up info on the driving experience, and it's in my state! Granted, it's on the other end, but ... still, something to consider!

Ken/Peter, let's motor.
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#397865 - 10/16/13 09:11 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
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#397866 - 10/16/13 09:29 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4428
Loc: Marion, IA
Of course "beating a Porsche 911" is relative. The new Carrera S is slower than previous models, and there are other 911s that would blow the doors off of this Z28.

I'm just saying because the title of the article is:
"Chevy Camaro Z/28 outruns Porsche 911 in wet Nurburgring lap"

It should say:
"Chevy Camaro Z/28 outruns modest Porsche 911 Carrera S in wet Nurburgring lap"

Then again, I would take the Z28 any day of the week over a Porsche (notice I didn't say "that" Porsche, but really almost any porsche) on looks alone! the Z28 is damn sexy.

Sure, the article says that it beat out an R8 from some year (EDIT: I found it from 2009) and a Lambo: which Murc? After all, they stopped production on their fastest version back in 2010, and those had different name designations. (EDIT: Found it: LP640 from 2007)

So please understand, I am NOT ripping on the great performance in the hands of a pro driver with some good sticky tires and perfect setup (just like the other cars had), but more of the person writing the article. Throw out some big names just to boost their ego for the Z28 that they pre-ordered instead of letting the car stand on its own merit and give the details of the vehicles that it is faster than (exact model, year, WHP, top speed comparisons, etc)..


******EDIT: I found a more detailed report...
Looks really nice for the Camaro...

Of course my simple Google search returned the following report. I know for some of you, you won't click it because "clearly it is bogus information, because that is all that "Faux"News reports." crazy

FoxNews and the new Camaro Z28

Of course, Chevy didn't put any real "new" technology into the car outside of carbon ceramic brakes. They just reduced weight and increased horsepower, which is obviously critical, but I would have liked to see some handling improvements, newer drivetrain, or something.

Here is an updated list of the top lap times from #1 to the 2014 Camaero Z28 (#32 at the moment)- taken from here: Nurburgring Times

Time Vehicle
6:48 Radical SR8 LM
6:55 Radical SR8
6:57 Porsche 918 Spyder
7:11.6 Gumpert Apollo Sport
7:12:13 Dodge Viper ACR (2010)
7:14.6 Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package
7:14.9 Donkervoort D8 RS
7:18.1 Donkervoort D8 RS
7:18.6 Nissan GT-R (2013, 2014)
7:19.6 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012)
7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009)
7:22.7 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012)
7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS
7:24.2 Nissan GT-R (2011)
7:24.3 Maserati MC12
7:24.4 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport
7:25.7 Ferrari Enzo
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009)
7:26.7 Nissan GT-R (2009)
7:27.8 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport
7:28.0 Porsche Carrera GT
7:28.7 Porsche Carrera GT
7:29.0 Nissan GT-R (2009)
7:32.0 Porsche 911 GT2 (2008)
7:32.9 Ferrari 458 Italia
7:33 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII
7:33.6 Koenigsegg CCX
7:34 Koenigsegg CCR
7:34 Porsche 911 GT2
7:34 Nissan GT-R (2011)
7:35 Ruf Rt 12
7:37.4 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 (2014)


Pretty impressive. I would take the option with A/C and a radio, because I think that my own physical "frame" would impact that power to weight ratio more than the A/C and stereo. LOL
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#397868 - 10/16/13 01:25 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8280
Loc: Tacoma
Nice work, guys. Very interesting.

Nick, I think you've hit on something. Do racing drivers have typical (or maximum?) physical dimensions? Like Jockeys?
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#397869 - 10/16/13 01:34 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Not necessarily, but it depends on what kind of car they're racing. F1 drivers are all extremely slim, but I don't know if they're height limited or not. Sports car drivers in general have a lot more flexibility and you frequently see endurance drivers switching seat inserts when they switch drivers.
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#397870 - 10/16/13 03:04 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
I just liked the video.......
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#397913 - 10/17/13 10:52 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
Did anyone happen to notice that he hit 160 mph in the rain? Gotta love them Mich tires... Not sure if I have the sand to drive like that guy. I know I don't. No matter what anyone says, that's one hell of a performing Camaro.
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#397930 - 10/18/13 11:09 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6387
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
I hear you - my instinct for self-preservation is too high for stuff like that.

A lot changed when I got married and had a kid. It's about 90% heart-warming and 10% annoying when the wife asks me not to, say, do a "racing experience" or go up a 20 foot ladder to clean the gutters because they need me around.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#397934 - 10/18/13 01:04 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: michael_d]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6780
Loc: PEI, Canada
I have no kids. So can I can fill in for you on that racing experience you booked? Just give me the date.
You have to do your own gutters though.
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#397981 - 10/19/13 03:21 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: Murph]
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2840
Loc: Rochester, NY
Great looking machine. I was gonna get one, but after the test drive, it turned into a really big robotty thing and walked away. I got a 2014 Acura MDX instead.

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#397993 - 10/19/13 07:56 PM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: tomtuttle]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Nice work, guys. Very interesting.

Nick, I think you've hit on something. Do racing drivers have typical (or maximum?) physical dimensions? Like Jockeys?
No. The seats/cockpits are custom built for each driver
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#398019 - 10/21/13 07:38 AM Re: New Camaro Z28 [Re: Ray3]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6780
Loc: PEI, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ray3
Great looking machine. I was gonna get one, but after the test drive, it turned into a really big robotty thing and walked away. I got a 2014 Acura MDX instead.


Your MDX already transformed RAY. It's pretending to be an SUV.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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