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#394898 - 07/05/13 09:12 PM Re: New LFR1100 woofer ***** [Re: Ian]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

He's doing fine Randy
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#394902 - 07/06/13 04:21 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I think positioning the LFR center to sit on the floor below the screen would offer the most stable design point for the DSP. Lots of people have either projection screens or wall-mounted plasma/LCD displays that could probably accommodate such placement. But it would need to be relatively short.

Making it a horizontal speaker seems like a non-starter since the DSP wouldn't know ANY of the boundary dimensions.


Getting the full complement of drivers in a shorter LFR-style center may not be worth it. If it was made into the T-style speaker I was thinking of (one woofer on either side to form the T, one at the bottom), and if all of the porting could be on the back, then it could potentially be around 30 inches in height. Even with the single front port, at a few inches taller, I could probably get the screen size I'm looking for. Of course, having the speaker in a T could add significantly to the production costs, as well as being less attractive. Once you eliminate some of the drivers, though, a shorter and entirely vertical center becomes a possibility. I could go for either of those options.

I'm enjoying the VP180, but I would love to try an omnidirectional center, and if I could go back to vertical (or mostly vertical, in the case of the T), I'd go back. The M22 worked fine, but I do appreciate the greater range of the VP180. Man, I can't wait until the basement is done enough for me to move my system down there, where my speakers will have the breathing room they've been wanting.

No matter what, I'm curious to see what comes of this discussion.

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#394903 - 07/06/13 04:24 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: Ian]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Out of curiosity, when was the last redesign of the tweeter? It seems like there were changes mentioned between v2 and v3.

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#394904 - 07/06/13 05:35 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: Andrew]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Andrew
For all of the LFR owners, have a look at where you have your speakers placed and ask yourself if you could place a centre channel in the same manner. I'd bet that most of you will say "No, I need to place it on or in a cabinet of some sort". This was the typical customer complaint with the Mirage bipolar and Omnipolar centres; they would get them home, shove them on a shelf, and then call us saying that it didn't sound right, etc. So, IF you have the setup that can allow it, an omni-directional centre has merit. And, yes, if there is enough interest we can happily consider it!


Just to respond to Andrew directly, yes, I'm interested in an omnidirectional center speaker, and yes, I will have open space to properly utilize it. Shorter is better. Around 30 tall inches would be perfect for my screen size plans. As you add inches beyond that, my dream of a projection screen starts to suffer. Most people will have a higher ceiling than me, but I still think most people won't want a vertical center much taller than that, simply because I'm thinking of a screen with the bottom scraping the top edge of the center channel and going all of the way up to the ceiling. At 16:9, that'll give me a 90" diagonal image with a few vertical inches left to play with. A lot of people who get projectors probably want an even bigger image, which they can get with their higher ceilings.

In any case, that's a little detail on what my specific implementation would consist of.

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#394914 - 07/06/13 11:28 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
What if you made it an inverted T and put the woofers in a separate horizontal cabinet along the bottom?
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#394917 - 07/06/13 11:48 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: tomtuttle]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 211
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
What if you made it an inverted T and put the woofers in a separate horizontal cabinet along the bottom?


I would think that having some kind of separate stackable or interlocking cabinets might indeed be a good option. Especially if each cabinet could be ordered in horizontal or vertical configuration. I also like the earlier suggestion of a short but wide 'fatboy' LFR. I guess that would likely require the drivers to be arranged 2 by 2 beside each other with extra space or ports by the third woofer. I suppose a modification to this for a horizontal arrangement would be to have a row of woofers above or below a row of the other drivers.

Now we just need Ian and Andrew to figure out if any of these options is feasible to build and produces good sound!

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#394919 - 07/06/13 11:52 AM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: CV]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 211
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: Andrew
For all of the LFR owners, have a look at where you have your speakers placed and ask yourself if you could place a centre channel in the same manner. I'd bet that most of you will say "No, I need to place it on or in a cabinet of some sort". This was the typical customer complaint with the Mirage bipolar and Omnipolar centres; they would get them home, shove them on a shelf, and then call us saying that it didn't sound right, etc. So, IF you have the setup that can allow it, an omni-directional centre has merit. And, yes, if there is enough interest we can happily consider it!


Just to respond to Andrew directly, yes, I'm interested in an omnidirectional center speaker, and yes, I will have open space to properly utilize it. Shorter is better. Around 30 tall inches would be perfect for my screen size plans. As you add inches beyond that, my dream of a projection screen starts to suffer. Most people will have a higher ceiling than me, but I still think most people won't want a vertical center much taller than that, simply because I'm thinking of a screen with the bottom scraping the top edge of the center channel and going all of the way up to the ceiling. At 16:9, that'll give me a 90" diagonal image with a few vertical inches left to play with. A lot of people who get projectors probably want an even bigger image, which they can get with their higher ceilings.

In any case, that's a little detail on what my specific implementation would consist of.


Just out of curiosity, what are the advantages of a vertical centre? Would you want the rear drivers aimed left or right or up or down?

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#394925 - 07/06/13 02:34 PM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
What if you made it an inverted T and put the woofers in a separate horizontal cabinet along the bottom?


Good call. The lesser width where the tweeters and rear-firing drivers would be would probably improve the sound appreciably. The separate cabinet would most likely reduce production costs/complexity, but it would require some external wiring, which is fine with me.

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#394926 - 07/06/13 02:46 PM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: cohesion]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: cohesion
Just out of curiosity, what are the advantages of a vertical centre? Would you want the rear drivers aimed left or right or up or down?


I'm just thinking of the improved horizontal dispersion.

Why would the rear drivers be aimed anywhere other than straight back? They're slightly angled out on the LFR1100s because of the likely configuration where there's a cabinet or something else in between the mains, but an omnidirectional center would assume open space between the mains.

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#394929 - 07/06/13 10:08 PM Re: New LFR1100 woofer [Re: Andrew]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: Andrew
So, IF you have the setup that can allow it, an omni-directional centre has merit. And, yes, if there is enough interest we can happily consider it!


My current configuration is using the VP-180 as a shelf for the plasma. My plasma is sitting directly on top of the 180. So, if there was to be a horizontal speaker, i would be able to take advantage of a new center.. However, the new center was a vertical center channel, it would pretty much be a no go for me.

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