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#395720 - 08/01/13 09:17 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
NOLAGT Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Nawlins LA
There's only going to be two per room.

So I got them hooked up. Sound pretty good but the location I have to work with in my bathroom to test them high up is not ideal. They are next to each other tilted up at the ceiling. I need to figure a way to hang them from the ceiling.

I may end up getting a bigger amp for them in the bigger areas and outside. What power rating would make a good difference from 55w. Would 100 be enough to make it worth it...more?

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#395721 - 08/01/13 10:04 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Mark, on the question about more amplifier power, your phrase "may end up" is right. You shouldn't assume at this time that what you now have won't be sufficient for your needs. If after experimenting you find that more is needed, 100 watts wouldn't likely make a significant enough difference. The difference in maximum loudness between 100 and 55 watts is only about 2.6dB(e.g., 102.6dB compared with 100dB on brief peaks). 220 watts would be 6dB louder and at least that much should be considered.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#395728 - 08/02/13 09:38 AM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
NOLAGT Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Nawlins LA
Yeah thats what I was thinking...that 100 isnt going to make enough difference to be worth the cost and extra equipment. And its not so much peak loudness im after...dont get me wrong it gets loud...I just hate having to turn the volume up almost all the way. I also feel that can add in distortion and also that with more power I would get more mid bass punch at lower volumes. I think the 55w im getting will suffice in most cases...I may try more for the outdoor sections. I was going to do a A/B testing when I get some time with these m3s hooked to my denon receiver. I have the un powered sonos boxed hooked to that so I can run one m3 off the denon and one off the powered sonos box and can get one playing at 55w and one at 140w (I think)playing the exact same thing at the same time.

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#395734 - 08/02/13 01:13 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
That is actually one of the cool things you can do with Sonos - run a left from unit and a right from the other because of the way they sync with each other. I've made stereo pairs from the Play 5's for outdoor parties before. Not sure how good a critical comparison between L and R speakers would be, but what do I know?

And to answer your previous question - with the Sonos Amp unit there is no unamplified output except for the sub output.
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In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#395753 - 08/03/13 08:23 AM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
NOLAGT Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Nawlins LA
Yea I really like how the sonos work that's why I decided to use them in my new house for whole home audio.

I don't know how good of a comparison it would be with a L and R but its easy to try. I might also go to my office where I have a drop down ceiling and can cut up a few tiles to install these into a ceiling and test. Might try a couple other in ceilings that way to see what I like.

And yea after asking I looked on one of my boxs and saw that...I'm sure I could sell them to cover the cost if an un-amped version if needed.

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#395765 - 08/03/13 10:10 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Mark, it's unlikely that the comparison you mention would give meaningful info. First, keep in mind that a given speaker uses a certain amount of power at a given volume level, regardless of what the maximum power capacity of an amplifier is. For example, if at a certain(rather loud)level the M3s use 10 watts, that's how much is used with either a 55 watt or a 550 watt amplifier. So, neither more "mid bass punch" at lower volumes, or anything else, happens merely by connecting an amplifier with a higher max output.

The setting of the volume control shouldn't be a matter of concern in general, since the setting necessary varies with the strength of the incoming signal, and a high setting doesn't necessarily indicate that the amplifier is operating near maximum power output.

Also, simply connecting a 55 watt amplifier to one M3 and a 140 watt unit to another doesn't mean that they're "playing" at those numbers. As mentioned above, the speaker only takes what it needs. It would also be possible for the 55 watt unit to be louder at a specific control setting than the 140 watt unit if for example it had higher gain.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#395778 - 08/04/13 12:48 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: NOLAGT]
Hellcommute Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 148
Hey NOLAGT,

I have experience with both Sonos and structured media/whole house audio install. I would recommend you go for a connect amp as you are thinking for a single location and then play 3 or play 5s for the other areas. The control app is great and basically gives you the poor mans version of a whole house audio system without the install cost or multiple in wall zone controls. Multiple phones can be connected to the sytem at the same time without breaking it, and Iphone, Android and PC are supported. Get a NAS storage device and you are done.

If you do decide to go for a full blown whole house audio system I would not recommend installing in wall M3s as ceiling speakers. In ceiling speakers have a coaxial design that makes them less fussy about placement and also gives them a more even frequency dispersion. As you mentioned they are not intended for "sweet spot" listening and are meant to give a room filling sound without a "soundstage." In-ceiling speakers made by the likes of Leviton, pyle, niles audio, Yamaha, polk, etc have a standardized opening and can be interchanged if necessary. A 6.5 or 8 inch driver design is typically available. If you are worried about room filling sound don't bother. Even a 6.5 inch pair at moderate volumes will fill the space with even and pleasant sound if placed properly.

Typically, audiophile type concerns aren't addressed by an in ceiling situation. You know too much about good sound obviously and it is making you overthink this. smile

Of the 2 scenarios, Sonos or installed permanently, and given your process so far, Sonos is more for you IMO. You are obviously a tinkerer, as am I , and will forever be asking if you could have done better. Sonos is completely flexible. Placement, how many, how big, when, are all at your control. Then if you move, pack it up and take it with you. FWIW, a single play 5 will fill a 14W x 25L room with a 12ft vaulted ceiling with loud and full bodied, pleasing sound. It also wont scream "I'm a point source speaker located right here, look at me!!" laugh They don't distort, even when abused, and have full eq control for room boundary compensation. Can you tell I am a fan yet? So is the end user of this install.

Don't get me wrong whole house zone audio kicks ass. But it's a set it and forget it kind of thing. Do it right, once. Good luck! smile

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#395846 - 08/06/13 03:26 PM Re: M3 in-walls in the ceiling for whole home audio? [Re: Hellcommute]
NOLAGT Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Nawlins LA
Originally Posted By: Hellcommute
Hey NOLAGT,

I have experience with both Sonos and structured media/whole house audio install. I would recommend you go for a connect amp as you are thinking for a single location and then play 3 or play 5s for the other areas. The control app is great and basically gives you the poor mans version of a whole house audio system without the install cost or multiple in wall zone controls. Multiple phones can be connected to the sytem at the same time without breaking it, and Iphone, Android and PC are supported. Get a NAS storage device and you are done.

If you do decide to go for a full blown whole house audio system I would not recommend installing in wall M3s as ceiling speakers. In ceiling speakers have a coaxial design that makes them less fussy about placement and also gives them a more even frequency dispersion. As you mentioned they are not intended for "sweet spot" listening and are meant to give a room filling sound without a "soundstage." In-ceiling speakers made by the likes of Leviton, pyle, niles audio, Yamaha, polk, etc have a standardized opening and can be interchanged if necessary. A 6.5 or 8 inch driver design is typically available. If you are worried about room filling sound don't bother. Even a 6.5 inch pair at moderate volumes will fill the space with even and pleasant sound if placed properly.

Typically, audiophile type concerns aren't addressed by an in ceiling situation. You know too much about good sound obviously and it is making you overthink this. smile

Of the 2 scenarios, Sonos or installed permanently, and given your process so far, Sonos is more for you IMO. You are obviously a tinkerer, as am I , and will forever be asking if you could have done better. Sonos is completely flexible. Placement, how many, how big, when, are all at your control. Then if you move, pack it up and take it with you. FWIW, a single play 5 will fill a 14W x 25L room with a 12ft vaulted ceiling with loud and full bodied, pleasing sound. It also wont scream "I'm a point source speaker located right here, look at me!!" laugh They don't distort, even when abused, and have full eq control for room boundary compensation. Can you tell I am a fan yet? So is the end user of this install.

Don't get me wrong whole house zone audio kicks ass. But it's a set it and forget it kind of thing. Do it right, once. Good luck! smile


Thanks for the info!! I am more of the sonos concept rather than a bunch of knobs and panels on the walls that I have to get up and fool with. I usually have my phone on me...and its so nice and easy to just click on a app and bam music. As for the play 5s I need something in the ceilings to get proper WAF lol and I would rather the installed look as well. As for the coax vs the M3s you are correct, im a over thinker and I am just worried about the fullness of the sound from the coax round speakers. Even with the m3s I find myself thinking....where can I install a small in wall sub too lol.

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