Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners I may need a new receiver, after all

I recently discovered that my 21 year old son would like to have my Yammy. He's never been enthralled with his rxv-495 and likes my 5280 better. So, I might just have to do some receiver shopping. I know most here would push the HK or the Denon brands. But, I'm looking for other suggestions. I'm looking at spending about $500. I'm thinking I might like a warmer sounding amp if such a beast exists.

i just got the ONKYO 701 for $439 from MACMALL.COM. it is a refurb/bstock, but it comes with 90 day warranty from the website, and full 1 year warranty from ONKYO.. and the website is an authorized dealer, so no worries there. i wish i could tell you how it sounds, but my speakers arent here yet.. but, i will tell you that it pushes 100wt/ch, has tons of inputs/outputs, and has the THX decoding.. it normally sells for $650-$750 depending on where you look. it is comparible with the denon 3803 and the HK 600 series. all ONKYO owners love em', and i have not heard one bad review or comment.. if i were you, i would go check out its specs, and see if it fits your needs. as far as the sound..... give me 6 weeks til my AXIOMS get here..

BTW- if mine is refurb/bstock, you wouldnt know it.. i cant find a scratch one on it..

bigjohn

Hi littleb

I'd go with the Panasonic SAHE 200. You can get them for about $300. They are giant killers. If you're adventurous, I'd go with the Panasonic SAXR50 (coming out in a few weeks), a 100 watt per channel pure digital receiver. The current SAXR45 is getting raves for music reproduction. The digital Pannies can also be had for about $300. I've compared the Panasonics to Sony, HK and Sherwood, and think they're incredible values. I thought the SAHE200 was pretty much as good as the Onkyo 797 which I personally prefer to the 701. JMO.

I think it was top rated at CR also

The Denon 1804 would be in your wheelhouse.

Ray3,

I noticed before that you own the denon avr-3803. In your opinion are they a warmer sounding amp than Yamaha? I found out tonight that jandr is going to be selling this model refurbed for $499.95. However, I don't believe they are an authorized dealer for denon.

Bruce, this whole warmer / brighter thing is difficult to discern. Speakers, room dynamics, ear canal diameter, wife's height - there's so many variables. I'm a firm believer that the speaker mechanics have more to do with the the audio than anything else. But the debates rage on. To my ears, the 3803 is a goldilocks receiver - just right.

Frankly, when you take a Denon, Yammy or HK and put the receivers with the same feature sets side by side, I would not want my life to depend on the decision of which was warmer , laid back or brighter. 10 people will provide 11 opinions. Once you zero in on the feature set and $$ you want to pay and pick one of the 3 above it will be difficult to be disappointed.

I originally had the Denon 1803 and moved up to the 3803 a year later. Prior to the 1803 purchase, I listened to H/K, Yammy and Onkyo. Enough different stores involved wtih enough different speakers to get my eyes to roll back in my head. They all sounded relatively similar to me. Knowing there iare bass and treble adjustments, I didn't agonize over my choice of the 1803. That choice bolied down to 1) it sounded good to me, 2) my research indicated that Denon provided an extremely solid/reliable product and their Customer Care was very good and 3) the feature set/price combo was attractive on a relative basis. I loved the 1803.

I moved up to the 3803 because 1) I got a killer deal on it, 2) I wanted a nit that could act as a pre/pro in the event I ever got the urge for added amplifiers, 3) a bit more power, 4) excellent Pure Direct stereo circuitry, 5) increase in the bragging rights quotient, 6) the only unit at this price level that does video upconversion ( that may have changed) and 6) assorted other bells and whistles in the unit. However, had I not dealt with #1 as well as I did, you would be asking how I like my 1803.

I realize this is a long non-answer, but it is a difficult question. What I would offer is the following. First, Denon makes an excellent product and the 3803 is pretty much issue free and tested by time. Second, the feature set is excellent if you are a guy that likes that stuff. Third - it just provides wonderful performance and rich sound; I have absolutely no regrets and recommend this unit without reservations. Finally, with everything in mind that I have written, if you can get this thing for $500, you should knock down old ladies standing in line in front of you to get at it.

You might check the Denon website, but I believe you are correct that jandr is not an authorized Denon dealer. Still, jandr has a good reputation and for $30-$40 you could likely get a warranty of some type. I would try to understand why they have it available though. If you can get past that issue, I can promise you (as you did for me when I was close to my speaker decision) that you will not be disappointed with this unit. At $500, it is a no-brainer. Hope this is helpful.

Man Ray...now you have me wanting to jump on that $500 3803 deal. I've been eyeing that Denon for a while and planning to put off any such purchase until later in the year. But for that price it's hard to say no. And to hear you sing its praises makes it harder yet to resist. It does bring up a question about why J&R has those refurbs on clearance. And when they will arrive also...as it is a pre-order. Maybe I should call them tomorrow and see what the deal is...

Just checked, J&R is not an authorized Denon retailer.

In reply to:

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To my ears, the 3803 is a goldilocks receiver - just right.

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Wouldn't that make it a baby bear receiver? After all Goldilocks preferred Baby Bear's chair, porridge, and bed. They were just right.

Though I suppose credit should be given to Papa Bear for the chair and bed, and Mama Bear for the porridge. If you think that's too sexist, then maybe Mama is to thank for the bed and chair and Papa for the porridge....

If you are really looking for a warm amplifier, you may consider a departure from the mass market crowd of denon, yamaha, sony, etc.
To me, all this talk is like comparing versions of Hondas and trying to say one is better than the other because of the color.
Do yourself a favor and visit a "high end" shop, kick back and listen for a while. Bring your favorite CD's. Personally, the warmest amps I've heard are like MacIntosh (not in the $500 range) and Nad, which has integrated amps starting around $500. They also make a killer AV receiver for around $1000, depending on what you are looking for.
Keep in mind the signal is only as good as the weakest link. Upgrading a receiver may put you on the path of a new CD player, DVD player, and so on .
Enjoy !

Pete, thank you, As I paws to reflect, your observation bears out my original premise.

Andy, if you can catch an extended warranty from jandr, you should be OK. I bought a refurb Denon DVM-4800 from ecost 11/03. It was their top o' the line 5 disc CD player that has an MSRP of $1199 (might be discontinued now). The thing is a beast and has a bucketful of DACs. It is ALSO a progressive scan DVD player and the PQ is terrific. I was just noodling around for a 5 disc CD to replace my 9 yr old Sony (shudder) and to use for Christmas music and parties; just an uninterrupted supply of background music. I stumbled across the 4800 for $319 and after some research on refurb/B-stock and ecost, I grabbed it. It's been terrific. While ecost is an authorized etailer for refur/B-stock, you only get a 90 day warranty, so I bought another year at ecost for $30. My thought was refurb means a problem was found & fixed ( and the unit should theoretically be about perfect) and B-stock gets me to something cosmetic that won't affect performance. Either way, I get Denon quality and performance at savings over $850. The 3803 is a terrific unit and at that price, a steal. However, do a bit of research before you pull out the credit card.

AudioFile - welcome to the mayhem. I had considered separates myself. When I was able to score the 3803 and have it act as a pre/pro as well, the decision became a bit muddy. One of the things I considered was the really robust feature set the Denon had in relation to the front end separates and the cost differential. I think separates are also a great choice, but the price of HT starts to climb pretty quickly once that step is taken. You also hit the really big nail on the head - other components begin to cry out for improvement!!

I emailed jandr about the authorized dealer thing. I received a reply that said they are indeed a Denon authorized dealer. I followed the supplied link which didn't work. I did a search for New York. It appears they are an authorized B&M.

I checked on the Denon website and J and R is an authorized dealer. Wonder how they got refurb 3803s? Might be from their own returns. No matter. Sounds like a good deal for this puppy. I'm guessing they won't have them long.

I see it now, I had only looked at the "E-tailers" listing. Good thing you are all more thorough! It is mighty tempting, any word on when they will be getting them in stock?

Editing...

I just called them, supposedly they will be getting them in a week or two. They do only come with a 90 day warranty, but for $30 it can apparently be extended to 3 years (covering repairs through local Denon repair shop.)

sigh. I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
LittleB, you really should listen to the amp first, and if not, make sure they have a $$$ back guarantee. If you are looking for warm, I don't think you're going to get it with a Denon. And, if it's refurb, ask yourself why so many?
It's worth it to stretch a little and purchase a Receiver that is going to make you happy.

I'm pretty happy with my refurb. I'll point out that they are often refurbs because they were demo models, or people returned them because of reasons other than defectiveness. I'll also point out that refurbs are also tested more than new units. Testing=good. And if they've got the same warranty, why not?

I hear you talkin' loud and clear

I'm afraid the difference in SS amps is rather debatable. We've certainly had a lot debates about it!

For the warm sound, you should probably consider tubes. Having not heard some in a comparative setting, I can't really speak to the quality, (at the last shop I went to to compare tubes vs. SS, the salesdork told me I was "silly" to want to compare the two, as people usually have a preference one for the other...) but they're definitely warmer than SS. No matter what the name on the plate is.

After thinking over my initial posting here, I don't think the term warm really applies. Ray3 pretty much nailed it when he used the term smooth.

They have disappeared from the website already. I sat on the fence while Ray scarfed them all up. Oh well, I'm $500 richer. I could get the QS8s for that.

around $500 right ?

http://www.yawaonline.com/nadt7sursoun2.html

The 3803s are still listed on JandR here

So, what did you two decide to do?

Ray

The suspense is killing me

I am still processing. I will let you know the outcome as soon as I do It's one of those: want it, don't need it situations...but with a very good price.

Andy, that is EXACTLY how I ended up getting my 3803! The 1803 I had was perfectly good for wht I needed. I just couldn't quite reach that itch to scratch it, hence the 3803.

Ray I think I've managed to overcome upgraditis this time. I'm going to hold out on the 3803. That's not to say the money is going in the bank I'm just looking into other outlets...