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#398565 - 11/14/13 11:18 PM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1066
The new towers couldn't hurt (too).
Just saying...
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#398566 - 11/14/13 11:24 PM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Crimson Wrath]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi Crimson Wrath

As has been noted by others the reason you are running into the harshness or brightness in the high frequencies at higher volume levels is your amp clipping. Your Pioneer is rated at 120 watts with one channel driven which is not a lot of total system power. Typically receivers also employ a switching power supply rated to the maximum output specified which means there will be no dynamic headroom above the 120 watts. Dynamic headroom is important to avoid clipping as it can give you useful dynamic capabilities in excess of double the rated power. This is why we use linear power supplies with large (and heavy) toroidal transformers and loads of capacitor storage. When you add together the much higher rated power output of an ADA amplifier and all the dynamic headroom they incorporate you will get the high volume without distortion you are looking for. Murph mentioned the exponential nature of amp power earlier which is an important part of this equation also. Every time you double the amp power you only gain 3dB more in output before clipping; which means big spaces and/or higher desired listening levels require loads of amp power.

The LFR880s would be a good option since you can get the optional ADA1000 DSP/amp combo unit with high level inputs that will work from your Pioneer VSX-919 receiver. Now I am wondering if we shouldn’t have a 5-channel version of this available with a centre channel high level input to allow the entire front of the system to be driven with a high power ADA1000-5 amp just leaving the surrounds to be driven by the receiver amp.

The above said if you do make the jump to the Pioneer Elite you can get the model that incorporates pre-amp outputs and then go to something really big like the ADA1500-5 for the front channels.
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#398568 - 11/15/13 01:08 AM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
Crimson Wrath Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 86
Loc: NC
A response from the president of the company, wow...now that's customer service. Decisions, decisions. The price difference in the LFR1100s and LFR880s doesn't seem that much in the high powered versions overall I guess, to get the most drivers available (bigger is always better here in 'Merica). Though obviously a bit more power would be needed. It looks like there's a bit of a discount for the ADA1000/DSP combination when purchased with a pair of omnidirectionals, as opposed to an ADA1000 purchased separately. Goodbye, bank account eek


Edited by Crimson Wrath (11/15/13 01:09 AM)
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#398574 - 11/15/13 11:34 AM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Hi Ian,

I like your idea of a five-channel version DSP/ADA combo. Also, is it possible to source or design a chassis big enough to allow for the DSP plus a choice of any of your amp modules -- that is, 1000/1250/1500? Or could you perhaps somehow fit the DSP plus a reduced number (only up to four or five) of the bigger amp modules into the existing chassis? Especially with the LFR1100's and High Powered Woofer option, I think customers would benefit from an integrated DSP/ADA unit with more power available! That's what I probably would have chosen if it had been available.

Great work on all the new stuff by the way!!

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#398599 - 11/16/13 06:08 AM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: cohesion]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi Cohesion,

It really does come down to real estate in the chassis. We are going to see if we can fit all the necessary components into an ADA100-5 amp chassis to allow the centre channel to run through there too. The ADA1250 and ADA1500 will be pretty much impossible to squeeze it all in but we could make a separate 2U chassis size DSP with the centre channel high level input that could then connect to an ADA1250 or ADA1500. Let’s see what we can figure out next week and I will let you know.
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President & Chief Engineer

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#398601 - 11/16/13 09:13 AM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Ian, i would venture to guess that most people who would be interested in a
ADA 1200/1500 setup, would be fine with a larger chassis... Granted going this route, those 2 products would have their own chassis, due to the nature of not being able to use "off the shelf" parts for you guys would add some additional cost for the different chassis.

But, i would guess that people looking for a product like that would be willing to pay the difference?

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#398605 - 11/16/13 12:48 PM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1032
I'm feeling so inadequate with my mid-level Denon driving my HT & my 30 W/Ch tube amp driving my audio system...

TAM

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#398639 - 11/18/13 09:38 AM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: dakkon]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Ian, i would venture to guess that most people who would be interested in a
ADA 1200/1500 setup, would be fine with a larger chassis... Granted going this route, those 2 products would have their own chassis, due to the nature of not being able to use "off the shelf" parts for you guys would add some additional cost for the different chassis.

But, i would guess that people looking for a product like that would be willing to pay the difference?


With the ADA1250/ADA1500 is comes down to a couple of issues beyond physical space:

Both of these amplifiers use a power supply "motherboard" that covers the entire bottom of the chassis. There are very high currents circulating on this PCB that would easily cause noise issues for the sensitive, low-level DSP.

There is also a lack of a suitable power supply for the DSP which would require an additional transformer and power supply PCB...yet more sources of noise and potential interference. The best bet from a performance standpoint is unfortunately separate chassis.

We can get away with the integrated system using the ADA1000 because of the different power supply configuration in that amplifier and the fact that we have the required power supply available.

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#398903 - 11/26/13 07:03 PM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1066
O.k so the new towers did hurt a bit.
Moving on, can we see the frequency and impedance graphs for the new high powered towers?
I'd also like to confirm, shouldn't they be more efficient than the V3 M80? I thought they had new magnet structures?? to go with the new voice coils. Maybe I'm mixing up/combining different products?


Edited by brwsaw (11/26/13 07:06 PM)
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#398906 - 11/26/13 08:13 PM Re: New HIgh Powered Versions [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8292
Loc: Tacoma
Why would you think they would be more efficient?
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