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#400069 - 01/14/14 04:14 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 985
As I've stated before, my Audyssey repeatedly sees my M22s as 40 Hz in my HT room. Looking at the official FR Charts, that surprised me.

Following the conventional wisdom here, I manually set them at 60 or 80 Hz & I believe that I've settled on 60 Hz at the moment. Works for me & I don't feel like I experience any deficits that make me searching for more.

I too would like a VP160 but it just won't fit into my system - too large. Then again, maybe with the way that my room reacts, perhaps the 160 might prove to be too bass heavy. I don't like chesty sounding male voices...

TAM

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#400070 - 01/14/14 04:16 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: exlabdriver]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: PEI, Canada
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I don't like chesty sounding male voices...
TAM


But many males like to talk about chests.
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#400074 - 01/14/14 08:21 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
Oh geez, Audyssey sees my VP100v1 as a 40Hz speaker. The thing's not right in the head. Or CPU, or whatever.
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#400075 - 01/14/14 08:26 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 985
Interesting. It sees my VP100 V3 as 80 Hz as it should...

TAM

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#400078 - 01/14/14 08:57 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1163
Loc: Whitehorse YT
I think common sense should tell pretty much anyone with a bit of audio knowledge that a 5 inch speaker is not going to deliver much output in the 80hz range regardless of what audyssey says. It may play the note but it wont be of much value. Instrument Range chart

Audyssey is so over hyped its ridiculous. Its like putting a band aid on a Colombian neck tie.
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#400092 - 01/14/14 11:08 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 985
I know that Audyssey is not a perfect tool, but it does provide some semblance of room EQ that was never available before. We had to live with what the room gave us. My unit seems to smooth out my room response in a pleasing way.

When I first ran it, it quickly discerned that my QS4s were out of phase. This condition probably would not have been easily detectable by ear as the surrounds are in use for only fleeting moments during movies. Similarly, it found that my subs' levels were waaaaay too high so I lowered them progressively to a more reasonable & correctable level - about half of where I had them set initially.

As for what it finds in my room: M22s - 40 Hz; VP100 - 80 Hz; & QS4s - 100 Hz. I believe that this is more or less accurate; however, it would not have much credibility if only 1 run in 1 position was used, but 6 (or more) averages the data pretty well I would think.

I kinda like it but I know others don't...

TAM

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#400093 - 01/14/14 11:25 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1163
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Tam not trying to be confrontational here just sharing personal experience.Unfortunately one of the biggest mistakes Audyssey makes is phase. It said I had speakers out of phase I would reverse the leads and then it would say a different speaker was out of phase. I checked my speakers with a 9 volt battery and tested all wiring with an ohm meter and despite audysseys complaints everything was as it should be. From what I have read this is a common mistake made by audyssey because of room reflections. I have a Denon 3311 and it has Audyssey xt32, I also have a Yamaha with Ypao and like what the Yamaha does for correction better. Some rooms benefit from correction more than others. The room I have right now doesn't seem to require much correction as it doesn't seem to sound a great deal different with it on or off. I do use it so I can use dsx for front wides. As far as it setting a small driver for 40hz is for lack of a better word , ridiculous . A 5.25 drive is just not capable of that kind of excursion. I agree that Audyssey is great for us people who don't want to or cant spend the time to address room response issues with treatments.
I am personally too lazy to bother. I bought all the electronics necessary to analyze my room with REW but its just too involved , so audyssey it is smile Maybe its just my bad hearing.

Richard
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#400095 - 01/15/14 03:54 AM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 985
My 'out of phase' surrounds were definitely out of phase with the rest of the system - not between the 2 of them. I had stupidly wired both of them backwards using the Axiom wall brackets. I reversed the wires & all is OK now.

Perhaps 4 X 5.5" drivers can go lower than advertised in my room especially because they operate in a 12' wide X 3' deep alcove.

FWIW, I found this at AVS Audyssey thread explaining what is supposed to happen if the calibration is going correctly:

*Audyssey has simply 'listened' during the measuring phase and reported the -3dB point of the frequency response to your AVR. What this means is this: when Audyssey sends the test chirps it will measure the frequency response of your speaker and find where it starts to roll off (i.e. become 'less loud'). When Audyssey detects the point at which the frequency response is down by 3dB ('the -3dB point' or 'F3') it stops trying to correct for the in-room response. So if, for example, your speaker is -3dB down at 50Hz, Audyssey will detect that and will only apply the EQ down to 50Hz. Audyssey will not correct below 50Hz for fear of boosting the lower frequencies beyond the capabilities of your speaker and damaging it. (Advanced users may wish to read the Technical Note below).

It is then the responsibility of the AVR manufacturer to decide what to do with that information. In some cases, if the -3dB point is, say, 40Hz, the AVR will set the speakers to Large. In other cases, the same situation will result in the speakers being set to Small with a 40Hz Crossover set in the AVR menus. In addition, Audyssey takes into account the placement of the speakers in the room and the room characteristics itself when evaluating the -3dB point. So if your speakers are in a corner, for example, they will deliver more perceived bass than if they are out in the open because the room reinforces the bass. All of this will influence the Crossover that is actually set.*

TAM

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#400180 - 01/17/14 01:15 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
local

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 294
I was a huge Denon fan, still am, but since I bought that Anthem MRX500 and the ARC Software that comes with it, I love it.
Specially now with the newer ARC.1m
PLus I can request two seperate measurements. One for HT with up to the 7.1 ch and a music setting with 2.1 or just 2ch and save both.

then I can configure it to use whichever one I want. So if I have two Blu ray players one I set up for movies and the other for music.

Also, I been playing with these subs and now have one front and the other rear. and I changed all my settings on the subs to 60 hz. nothing worse than a sub next to you speaking
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#400185 - 01/17/14 01:43 PM Re: M22 Upgrades, now that the m60/80 are [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 985
I'm fortunate to have 3 separate quality systems - 1 HT & 2 Audio Only.

I set up the HT on Audyssey for movies & then leave it alone. The only music that I play on it is live concert DVD/BDs that generally do not come across as pristine as studio recordings; however, it sounds just fine with the yahoos in the crowd coming across too loud & clear in the sound field behind & around me.

My 2 Audio Only systems have no capability of automatic EQ so I take what the room gives me.

Getting back to the original premise of this thread about upgrading the twin drivers in the M22, if Axiom produced HP versions & new cross overs, I wouldn't bother 'upgrading' because I find that the present M22s do the job just fine when paired with subs. If subs weren't involved, it might be a different story....

TAM

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