Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler AVS

There's a poster on AVS who's looking for axiom owners to give their honest opinions of their centers.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1464107/new-official-axiom-audio-speaker-owners-thread/330

I've tried my best without getting into posting over-the-top BS that is so prevalent out there.

I don't know what else to say...

TAM

Hard to say what his motives are. He may be looking for more than one opinion, possibly from someone outside the axiom forum who he perceives is not jaded in any way. I certainly wouldn't go to Emotiva's forum looking for suggestions about other brands of amps or expect to find negatives about their own products. If anyone has doubts they need to take advantage of the 30 day trial its the only way to be absolutely sure they will like it.

Richard

Why waste the energy trying to convince someone?

Does "honest" = "what he already believes?"

In the latest couple of posts, seems that he might be happy to try out the VP160.

BB: Not only do I do it to assist a poster, it also serves to provide others out there who care to read my posts, with credible info to provide a counterpoint to the mean-spirited, ridiculous suppositions & largely erroneous BS that has been floating around the net over the past 2 or 3 years. I don't relish doing it & I would rather take a nap; however, it needs to be done IMO...

TAM

Outside of this forum it is hard to get a realistic opinion of axiom products. I askesd similar questions at AVS years ago and it turned into a derailed argument between other posters. It was clear the anti axiom guy needed another hobby, or a girlfriend.

Its hard to have any opinion at AVS without someone getting personal. I started to get annoyed when people would offer personal accounts with products/setups and were accused of being "dumb" for liking what they heard....

I dont post there anymore. Tired of being questioned by those with a sig line 10 miles long and pics of their speakers setup horribly. Jokers......

Its good axiom is getting a fair shake at hometheater shack. Great writeup in a comparsson thread there. Another product, the Tannoys, ended up in my brothers home theater. The M80s were under consideration back when he was looking. No dealer demo was a dealbreaker for him.... The hometheatershack thread may have encouraged him make the effort to hear the axioms somehow.

Yup, as I mentioned before, HTS is a cut above the others IMO & have a lot of credibility with me.

They don't put up with any BS there...

TAM

Wouldn't really matter IMO.
His point, and the reason for the first post, was that few positive comments for axioms center channel speakers are on the AVS thread.
Worth while effort TAM.

I wonder who picked up the VP180HP? At $600 and change that was a good buy.

I might add - Unlike many prolific posters out there that post their unending recommendations of their favourite brand, I never join any of the ubiquitous 'I'm Useless - Choose Speakers for Me!' threads to push Axiom on anyone.

I only offer my 2 cents worth if Axiom is already mentioned in a thread & I offer assistance or info as appropriate...

TAM

Tam, I don't think any less of you for doing it, so many people do these days. (Yes, I have friends who don't talk about it, but I KNOW they do it!) However, I, for one, have never cheated on Axiom with ANY online entity, at any website, or anywhere else, cyberspacically speaking.

I know that doesn't make me "modern," but I don't care what they say about me when my computer is off.

Guilty! I was going to upgrade my VP180 to HP but buying this was a better option.

have you received it yet, and do you plan to do a side by side comparo

Fair enough TAM, I just subscribe to the "never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, only the pig is happy, and people can't tell one from the other"

I don't see it as my "mission" to defend Axiom and prefer to use that energy elsewhere.

Being retired for a decade, I don't have any real missions in life anymore except to achieve a vertical posture every day, ha!

I view continual brand bashing (I've even stood up for Bose out there!) that is mostly misguided, malicious & after a protracted period, akin to slander, as basically unjust. Since I have the time to provide counter points, I reluctantly do so...

TAM

I went and did my part for Axiom on AVS. Hope it helps!

No. To make a long story shorter, I asked them to hold it for me pending the arrival of my upgraded LFRs at a new HT room. The LFR upgrade is already ordered but new HT room is not.

Will try to do some kind of comparison when it is possible.

It was a good buy.

This is at AH:

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-myths-and-truths

TAM

Anyone take the time to read this Audioholics article or watch the Video?
What did you think of the myth busting?
/Jeff

Hmmmmmm, think some of the myths are directed at any company in particular.... Like maybe several of them...... Hmmmmmm.......

Some apply to another brand they carry in their online store.... Also heavily benefitting from research at the NRC. Also canadian. They dont seem to mind the profits I'm sure. . Maybe they forgive the myth when there is a paycheck at the end of the rainbow. Gotta get heavier free weights for hugo there....

I did both.
I wonder if the granite speaker sounds good.
Funny they should cautiously mention bose, I'm having difficulty with how good our portable unit sounded while we were on the road. From 3' away, with no other sound to compete with, and just loud enough to enjoy while everyone slept, I could picture the (empty) venue in my mind very very clearly.

Somehow I recall that I've seen parts of this before & is a compilation of some critical articles over the past couple of years.

As before, I would say that 'most' are veiled comments directed at 'you know who'.

The one that slays me is criticisms of a speaker manufacturer that designs & builds its own drivers in house - like that's a bad thing - closely followed by criticizing a manufacturer that uses, of all things, a large Anechoic Chamber for research & testing that is fully equipped with the best, annually calibrated electronics to measure speakers from virtually every angle.

Honestly, I don't get it...

TAM

I can be thinly veiled too.

If someone is running a supposedly unbiased, review site that is all about the actual measurements, but accepts advertising dollars, can you trust them? If this website sings the praises of a particular speaker maker, but when that maker stops buying ads there, they change their tune. Regardless of whether the speakers are any good or not, that says a lot about the integrity of the review site. When that review site starts running their own store selling products that they say rate highly, why would you still take any thing they say seriously? If review site hires a family member to visit the forum of a speaker maker and harass their customers on a daily basis, why would you even mention the name of that review site, or even post links to them? They deserve no attention or money from ad impressions from visitors.

Audioholics is one of the main reasons I went with Axiom originally. Anymore, I'd put a lot more stock in what Ian and Andrew say about speaker design than what AH says. The size of their vendetta is bewildering to me. The best way to show you know how to make speakers is to make your own speakers. Non-stop cutesy dogging of a manufacturer is simply how you embarrass yourself.

Thats how i found out about axiom too.

Tom Andry used to use M22s and gush over them. They would test a sub once a month it seemed. Always to huge fanfare. I dont listen to his show anymore.

Audioholics was founded on exposing truths in audio. Turns out there are only so many artcles possible in that vein before the soup gets cold. Now, they spice things up with a little bithchiness in their articles.

To say the least, Audioholics is a fairweather review site. Its too bad HTmag merged with SandV. Too beginner now.

It was an excellent buy! I just got it set up today and have limited experience but based on the improvements in the v4 LFRs I'm expecting great things!

Cohesion that's going to be one badass setup once you have everything running.

I read about the past drama with the IP address that was tracked. Was it proven that the person that was doing the harassing related or hired by Gene DellaSala?

It has been thankfully quiet lately.

Perhaps it would be best to leave ancient history remain dormant lest we needlessly open old wounds...

TAM

Amen, Obi-Tom.

Obi-Tom - I luv it, ha!!

TAM

AVS was down yesterday for maintenance. This morning it is completely gone!

I think that I'm in withdrawal - well not really...

TAM

In case anyone is interested, the AVS Forums are up with a new look & URL:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php

TAM

For those who haven't stumbled upon it, there is an interesting thread at AVS wrt the EP800V4.

I contributed my 2 cents worth several times, after all, I am a user - what would I know?? Showing a whole lot of fortitude, today Ian provided some measurements, excellent technical information & design philosophies.

How it will be received over there is a crap shoot at the best of times; however, I surmise that there will be some keyboards banging away in basements tonight:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoo...m-ep800-v4.html

TAM

Without even clicking the link, I am sure that I will see some of the "usual offenders" in that thread...

EDIT: Yup.. Post #20 GTPStuper chimes in. He whines about "Axiom should submit their data to ____" but there was a completely independent test that was linked to in the thread that proved the sub to be outstanding in performance.

Away I go for a read.

I had a read through and have to say its hard for axiom to get a fair shake at AVS. Duh, right? Hometheaterforum is a little more friendly to the axiom name due to their overwhelming showing in the loudspeaker test of the M100.

I looked up Ian's posts and had a skim of the thick of the old "thoughts on axiom" thread. Gotta say kudos to Ian for staying cool as a cucumber through it all.

Although I didn't end up with a system at home, I still admire the ethos and intelligence that Axiom offers.

Geez TAM. You get around....

And newf! You should handle as newfflac, or newfdsd. Mp3?! Come on.

Totally kidding.

Lol

Years ago I drove a 2001 Mazda MP3. It was the first production car with a stock mp3 Kenwood excellon system in it. Suspension kit and stuff too all from factory. Fun little car, but had some issues. I was never into forums before owning that car. I went searching online and found other Mazda owners on a Mazda forum in search of solutions for said problems. I signed up using newfmp3 because Newf was taken. For those that do not know, Newf is what people call Newfoundlanders which is where I am from. Anyways, it kinda stuck with me. Killer is, there are a few other forums out there that someone else has used the same name.....what are the odds?

Totally useless info.

Yeah, but we all know a newf likes to tell a good story.

Provided some info & assistance to a poster & to provide a counterpoint to Post #2:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1813506-axiom-audio.html

Now at AH with no Axioms mentioned:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1813506-axiom-audio.html

TAM

For those who may be interested:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1965257-why-so-little-discussion-about-axiom-speakers.html

TAM

Nice to see others showing some fortitude & stepping up to the plate over there.

That is a welcome change from the past couple of years...

TAM

Unfortunately that thread will not die even though it should have a while ago...

TAM

As is typical for the "science guys" on AVS forum, they mention how other companies use "real measurements".

Axiom uses the NRC for measurements, which is probably the most accurate system for measuring one can find. These measurements are available to see on the "specs" page for each Axiom speaker and subwoofer.

At least Axiom has their very own, on-site, sophisticated, full size Anechoic Chamber in which to make proper measurements...

TAM

Why is it always the same 3 aholes that show up on AVscience and run their mouth . Its fine if they don't like Axiom ,its their relentless bashing I just don't understand.

Socketman - Regardless the topic, there are always 3 to 7 guys there that have an agenda. It could be subwoofers, a certain speaker manufacturer .. etc ...

In the mean time, I looked at both the SVS and Aperion website. Neither show measurements that I could find. The SVS Prime Tower DID have a test on Soundstage, which measures speakers using the same method Axiom does (and vice versa).

Based on measurements, the Axiom towers are more linear across the bandwidth. They are also about 4 dB more sensitive, which is quite a difference, especially when using a receiver. This does not "prove" that Axiom's speakers sound better than SVS, but to suggest Axiom is lacking in measurements while SVS and Aperion are "superior" in measurements is ridiculous.

Of course, one cannot blame SVS nor Aperion for posts made by these certain few people.

There are a lot of great products on the market - it's just too bad some people think being nasty is a sign of being intelligent.

Back to AVS - there is little to no science there. The forums are a marketing platform for certain manufacturers. It used to be a great forum, but it's pretty much one of negativity over the last few years.

There is a thread for the new Emotiva XMC-1 on AVScience and the guys there are pretty good but the speaker forum has some really winners in it.

Pre-amps, Receivers, Processors, power amps ... etc ... "usually" have less fighting than speakers and subwoofers.

The exception to this is if you start a thread about the audible differences between Pre-amps, Receivers, Power amps ... etc ...

I go to AVS only for DIY theater build threads, acoustical treatment information, and the custom printed acoustical panel thread. I stay clear of the rest because someone, as mentioned before, always has an agenda.

I still cannot be bothered to engage with anyone (on this site, or any other) that wants to argue. Why waste the energy? I remember the old saying "never wrestle with a pig, only the pig will enjoy it, you both will get dirty and nobody will be able to tell the two of you apart"....

Let those people have their opinions, you are never going to have them acknowledge and believe your point of view.

BBIBH - I stopped bothering with AVS in 2011, and the only time I even see a thread there is through a link as provided by exlabdriver.

I tend to agree with you about arguing with "opinions" as made, but when people post "facts" such as the claim that "Axiom does not have accurate measurements" when Axiom has as accurate a measuring protocol as one will find in the industry, it is prudent to point out the complete inaccuracy of the "facts" as presented.

If someone posts "I listened to ABX speaker, and hated it", that's opinion, and not an issue with which one should argue.

The forums used to be a lot more fun, and a lot more friendly. Ten years ago, if one posted something on the speakers or subwoofers section on AVS, and no one else posted in that thread, two hours later, the thread would be on page 3.

Today, two DAYS later, it's often still on page one, because the forum world just does not draw an audience as it once did.

And that is the issue - nice people are being driven away from the forum world because a few on line bullies want to control the narrative, and nice people have better things to do than be "yelled at" for saying he/she likes Axiom, Aperion ... or even Bose.

We need more people having fun in the world of audio. We need more GTG's again.

We used to have GTG's where 4 or 5 different companies would have speakers present, and they were a LOT of fun. Blind testing would be done, and guys would often pick speakers or subs from another company instead of what they owned, even though the speakers they owned were there.

We did one at my place in 2005, comparing an Axiom EP-500 to an SVS PB-12 Ultra. There were about 12 guys on the "listening panel", with (if memory serves) 6 SVS owners, 3 Axiom owners and 3 who owned other products.

Five of the six SVS owners picked the Axiom sub, while 2 of the 3 Axiom owners picked the SVS sub as his "favorite", but in each case by a very small margin

Everyone had a great time, and the only consensus was that blind listening was useful, and the differences between the SVS sub and the Axiom sub were VERY minor.

As I am no longer a "company owner", and am back to this as a hobby (woo hoo!!), look for a fun GTG at my place this fall.

Everyone here will be invited.

Craig. I strongly agree with your assessment of forums and participation. I see the same thing for other hobbies I participate in.

Personally I think it is in large part poor forum management.

Fred, who said that you were allowed to have other hobbies?

Hobbies are only to be discussed on these boards. No other boards are required.

I only started posting elsewhere a couple of years ago because over time I could not stomach the unadulterated BS that had been continually spewed out by a few for several years. Because they were mostly never challenged by anyone, questionable 'opinions' eventually morphed into erroneous 'facts' & the bandwagon started. It still continues today but thankfully in a much diminished fashion.

I believed that counterpoints were needed to provide a more balanced view so I stepped in & of course took a lot of flack from the herd. I wish that this drivel would just go away to allow me to occasionally post helpful stuff instead of needlessly sparring with those who should know better.

Stalwart reviews in HTS have certainly helped turn things around, but unfortunately facts rarely change opinions, especially misguided ones...

TAM

There is an old saying Tam
" Never engage in a Battle of Wits with an unarmed man"
I still believe most guys on AVs mean no harm ,there are however a few that need a new hobby....or a couch !

Skins

You and Craigsub make very good points and I fully agree. For some of us it not even about Axiom its about the attitude and the willingness of certain individuals to come running any time the word Axiom is used in a forum to spread hate . I generally refer anyone interested in Axiom to visit our humble and friendly forum here.

Never argue with an idiot, people watching don't know who is who.

I guess that it won't die as long as someone like Mr PSA joins the fray. Why he is interjecting in a competitor's (Axiom) thread again (recently at AH), I can't fathom.

This is most tiresome. I think that I'll go upstairs, crank up my Tube Amp, fire up my EP400s/M2s & listen to some Spyro Gyra SACDs - loudly...

TAM

There are certainly a couple of bad apples there forcing their opinions down the throats of others with so called "facts" which are nothing more then nonsense.

The sad reality is that the internet and its opinions can highly effect the success of a company.Companies like Apple have this figured out and rely on it. Where would Apple be without its marketing and success in brain washing their iSheep.

Take SVS. Over at avs they can do no wrong. When I got my pb-2000 and it did not perform as I had hoped it would, the svs crowd blamed everything but the sub. They got more people over there defending them and promoting them that SVS doesn't really need to do marketing themselves.

Now SVS makes a decent product, I am not trying to pick on them. They stepped up and we worked something out and I kept the sub. But they are a perfect example of how AVS has helped them succeed.

Axiom doesn't promote itself enough. I am not sure why. But seeing these two or three jerks over at avs spread their self proclaimed expert advice just infuriates me.

The real issue is that so few happy Axiomites go there and help prop up our favorite speaker. Those of us who take the time to force down these nay sayers just look like fools who are painted as fan boys. I suspect there is more than 3 or 4 people that own an Axiom products and are more than happy with them.

GTsuper24 is quite the vocal "not too fond of Axiom" type of guy. He will be invited to come to our place this fall for a GTG to listen to a few speakers under blind conditions in a pretty good room.

Blind tests, even if they are not a proper double blind, still accomplish a lot.

When this GTG is planned, hopefully someone from here will make sure he knows he is invited.

Pretty sure that he already knows...

TAM

TAM - Supergt24 lives in Ohio - it's no more than a 5 hour drive from us no matter where in Ohio he is. I am pretty sure that what he would find at a GTG is a lot of fun, no agenda, and the chance to listen to some great speakers for himself.

Back when I was reviewing, we had 8 of these GTG's, and they were always a LOT of fun. Friends were made. The bar was open.

I just ordered the first pair of speakers for the long term, floorstander test: A pair of Martin Logan Electromotion ESL Electrostatic Hybrid towers that sell for $2500 per pair.

These speakers will be at the GTG. Axiom is going to have some stiff competition.

"Uhhh...sorry guys...uhhh...cough...cough...came down with something...can't make it..."

Adrian - The invitation to Supergt24 is a genuine invite. Hopefully he will make it.

There was a comment from someone in that thread that dismissed Axiom subwoofers as "no one considers them".

Let's look at the EP-500. It's available for about $1270 from Axiom. It's a single 12 inch, pretty long throw driver.

Powersound Audio has, for about the same $$$, the XS30 SE, which used dual 15 inch, pretty long throw drivers and an 800 watt amp.

Axiom's claimed strong suit is the DSP based amplifier. Powersound counters with dual 15's that have 3.125 times the surface area that the Axiom subwoofer has.

This would also make for an interesting comparison.

When I test a product, I don't care who "wins or loses". It's more about what the product can do in one's system that matters.

As an example ... and this is strictly a hypothetical ... let's say the Axiom sub, when compared to a PSA sub, sounds better, but the PSA sub can deliver 6 dB more output.

We would post why the*/ Axiom sounds better, with the caveat that the PSA will deliver a more powerful experience.

Of course, it's also possible that the PSA sounds better AND is more powerful ... or that the Axiom works better in certain real world situations because it's easier to corner load due to its shape and size.

The point is to do an honest evaluation, and to let others join in on the fun. This is why I purchase all products for review. When one is given a "free sample for review", one is not really entering into a review process with no bias.

So right, Ken. Thanks for re-exposing the Forum Whore issue.

From a manufacturers point of view, I would think it is about who they are selling to. There are other things than absolute output or performance to consider when one of the decision makers is not an audiopile.

This is true ... and often true even for an Audiophile. We all have criteria which is important to us. For example, the EP-500 is about half the size of the XS30-SE.

To some, this is a huge deal. For example, the EP-500 might be better a comparison to some JL Audio sealed subs, in terms of size and performance.

I could be wrong about this, but it seems the conventional wisdom is Axiom subwoofers are more often matched in an Axiom system while companies like PSA are more geared to someone looking for the most "SPL from 20 to 80 Hz" for the buck buyer.

One thing I have noticed about Axiom buyers - one rarely sees the Axiom owner disparaging other company's products.

Craig -- I think it is probably a fair historical statement that Axiom subs are less often paired with non-Axiom speakers. In other words an Axiom sub owner has a high likelihood of also being an Axiom speaker owner, whereas there are other manufacturers known primarily for subs (for example HSU, SVS, PSA), which are more likely to be paired up with speakers of a completely different make.

I've got 2 EP-500's on the way (layaway), for reference. I also considered two PB-2000's, and have generally only heard good things about SVS subs. I don't need them to be bad in order to justify my EP-500's.

One thing that I find under-discussed with regards to Axiom subs is the analog power supply. Strange that devotees of various cults of audio purity (only 100% air-cored inductors or thou shalt be shunned and disfellowshipped, etc.) don't seem to be impressed by the pronounced benefits of this upgrade for dynamics, longevity, and elimination of switching frequency artifacts. It is important to note also that this is not a cheap upgrade, and that it is likely a substantial cost driver in the price / output specs race. In fact, the use of this part (the value of which the Axiom engineers seem to be adamant about) really undercuts the absurd claims of cheap parts / penny pinching that are sometimes circulated elsewhere. I don't know of any other mainstream sub manufacturer that does this at similar price points.

Second comment on the EP-500 is that it has now gone sealed. Although output SPL's at moderate amp power generally require ports, the argument for the new sealed design is lower distortion, more elegant filtering (driver loaded at all f's by back pressure), and (obviously) elimination of port noise. Sealed designs also generally seem to be considered faster and more musical. Andrew and Ian have also touted their limiter design, claiming that it very effectively suppresses the output of strange grunts/growls as the circuit is engaged.

Last thing -- it is sometime suggested that the steep frequency slopes on their crossovers promote time-domain ringing at the cutoff. I'm a bit skeptical of this. It would seem that more severe problems with time localization would arise from an absence of higher frequency modes as opposed lower --- and it is the high pass (at low frequencies) that is steep, not so much the low-pass (at high frequencies). Moreover, most users will probably use their own external bass management on the low-pass integration with mains. It would be interesting to see some analysis / listening tests / measurements of these issues. The comments I've made here are "top of the head", and may well be somewhat naive.

Cheers -DSQ

PS -- I'm sure most interested parties have probably seen Andrew's excellent subwoofer article at S&V here, but I'll link.

Thankfully the AVS Moderator has heeded my request & has shut down that nonsense - until the next time.

I think that the OP was a bit surprised to see what he had created. It's amazing what controversy that a couple of long-winded posters with agendas can accomplish.

On a lighter note & speaking of subs, I gave both of my pairs of Axiom subs a good workout yesterday. My 2 Channel audio only system with twin EP400s with M2s (SACDs & Tube Driven) sounded marvelous at rocking levels. Later on, my pair of EP800s shook our house to its core during the long & protracted LFE runs in The Transformers 'Age of Extinction' Blu Ray at -12 Db. Interestingly, my wife doesn't complain about the strong clean bass that the 800s produce as contrasted to our previous lesser subs that obviously struggled more...

TAM

DSQ - That was not only a terrific post, the link to Andrew's interview made for a good read.

Thank you!

I just read the S&V article - great insight on subs in general & Axiom's philosophy on designing & building subs.

Perhaps that's why they sound so darn good - to me anyway...

TAM

WARNING - I went into AVS this morning - they have been hacked big time - redirecting to other websites. Arghhhh.

Now I'm full of Malware that I can't seem to get rid of.

TAM

It's been a frustrating 4 hours. I've run a bunch of Scans - MS Security, etc & Malware Bytes. MS stuff didn't find anything but Malware Bytes found a bunch of malware & got rid of it; however, I still seem to have something going on in my Comodo Dragon Browser (a Chrome deriviative) that I updated today. For instance when I come into the Axiom Home page, I have pop up ads trying to sell me jewellry & a bunch from Crutchfield that I've never had before. I'm now in IE & am getting none of that.

What was interesting was trying to download Malware Bytes - most difficult. I was unable to do a System Restore from a couple of months ago - something wouldn't allow it.

So I'm kinda out of ideas right now. Any advice?

TAM

Interestingly I got a banner at the top of the Axiom Home Page (along with a bunch of popups) that that stated that it had detected problems my Flash Player & Java files. I did not click on the invitation to 'Fix' them; however, I went into my Browser & turned off 'Java Script'.

Anyway, all is well now so far but I don't know if not using Java will hinder my browsing in the future.

I have a feeling that this all started when I clicked on 'Update Java' at AH a couple of weeks ago that may have enabled it in my browser. AVS may have exploited that this morning. I'm scared to go in there now...

Grrrr...

TAM

I found the first glitch - I can't post with Java Script Off.

What a friggin pain...

TAM

What a waste of a day; however, I managed to save all of my Bookmarks, uninstalled my Dragon Browser & re-installed with the latest version. All seems well now with no pop-ups or re-directions happening even with Java Script on.

So I guess that it wasn't a waste, but honestly I don't really know what happened. It'll be a while before I go into AVS again, ha!

TAM

Take a look inside the Settings / Extensions. that is where the malbuggers like to put stuff for Chrome. As they are apps, non of the scan software looks for them

exlab. I seen your post earlier today, but I was already on avs and have been most of the day. No issues here. Using IE11 on a surface pro 3 though.

Thanks for the info. Everything seems fine now & I have IE 11 as a backup...

TAM

Well, I sort of kicked off an "anti-Gene" or "anti-Audioholics" discussion over at AVS... Oops. No mention of Axiom anywhere in the post, but I swear that the second anyone posts something about him or his company, he is made aware of it. He hadn't posted in a while, and certainly hadn't posted in the thread in question, and bam... the same day I make a comment about him, he shows up.

It starts with another person posting a link to his site and there was a video in it that I commented on in post 1094... Currently still going on 22 posts later (current post at this moment). His real personality is shining through.

DTS:X Immersive Sound Format - Thread at AVS - post 1092

I am 'persona-non-grata' there now after what I believe were 2 rather innocuous, & certainly noncontroversial posts (#5 & #9) here & note my 'Signature Block' that I did not generate:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/thr...coustics.94132/

Judging from the interesting reaction of others in AVS, I feel somewhat vindicated; however, I am unable to contribute there anymore.

I've been thinking about my computer problems yesterday & wonder why a reputable company like Crutchfield would be involved with a virus (or whatever it was) that plastered their ads all over my screen. It was especially bad on Axiom's home page. Honestly, I don't understand this stuff...

TAM

Wow, that is pretty childish. Another hobby of mine deals with roller coasters, and there is a forum with just as much of a smart-arse owner called Theme Park Review. The guy that runs that place must be related somehow. He kicked and banned me because I disagreed with his opinion (which he admitted was his opinion) for something that he had never experienced, but I had. He kept responding to the topic thread with these long, swear filled messages, and then would delete his posts. That way anyone subscribed would see him trying to bash me, but the permanent record would not exist. He also changed my avatar to be "Barney" as in the "I love you" dinosaur and made it so that my control panel showed the avatar that I wanted, thus making it unchangeable. There are other people there that he changed their tagline to as well, making it look like they are calling themselves liars, etc. So childish. I am still a member over there (was reinstated after having to stroke the guys ego), but I have since never posted anything and rarely visit. Some people are just that way. It is just unfortunate when people view them as "experts" in their field and they are recognized for their unethical and childish behaviors.

Tam. I would not sweat your ban at Audioholics. The signature hack is unfortunate, sad and predictable.

Mr. DellaSalsa's behavior is what it is. I would not be surprised if his behavior with Axiom was a major contributor to the shutdown of the Audioholics store. Independent audio manufacturing is a small world and no doubt the players talk to each other. Karma's a bee itch.

I was firmly warned by the overlord about a post I made here wrt a poorly made vid some time ago. Where I felt several thinly veiled slights were made for no reason. I ceased all activity and visits to audioholics since then. It is a shame that site went down that road. I really benefitted from the info there when I was just starting out. But now I'm a little worried about how his influence will affect people just starting into the hobby. In a forum like AVS, filled with heavy hitters and newbies alike, his "omnipotent" presence is little more than fodder for those with too much time on their hands.

So Gene runs AVS now, too? Or did they give him mod rights for some godforsaken reason?

There are a lot of fascinating things going on in the forum world, and unfortunately, most of these things are not good.

I always thought the forums (in terms of audio) were supposed to be a place where guys (and the occasional brave lady) could hang out, have fun and share USEFUL information.

The forums have morphed into the fans of certain companies shouting down everyone else. Guerrilla marketing runs rampant.

I started posting here again because it is one of the few places which is a community. If someone comes here liking some other company's products, he is welcomed. This is a good thing.

After I had posted here again for a few days, I received a PM. In this PM, I was told to look at a competitor's products. A link was provided.

That is WAY past "not cool". But it is an indicator of the state of this hobby today.

We are losing the "millennials" from this hobby. The reason we are losing them is they go on a forum, and immediately get told to "buy XYZ" product.

Typically, it's a $1000 - $3000 subwoofer from a "favorite" ID company and a bunch of speakers this young person can't afford, either.

My 23 year old son just bought his first house, and asked me to help him out with a home theater purchase.

His number one feature was Bluetooth so he could rock the house with his Droid phone.

Lots to be said on all of this, but for now, we need to make the forums both useful and fun again. Like this place.