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#403456 - 04/22/14 03:15 PM Help with center channel and my hearing loss
Lance_H Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 2
I have high frequency hearing loss, which means I can hear dialogue but can't understand it well because I cannot differentiate consonants well.

I have the 180 center speaker now, with M80s on the side. I'm still not understanding movie dialogue. I have a new Yamaha Aventage RX-A3030 on the way hoping that might help (running a Denon 3312 now with a Behringer to push the M80s).

I've seen comments to the effect that Klipsh speakers are colored in the treble range. Wouldn't that help me? What center speaker brand might help me since the Axiom isn't working for me, though my wife loves it?

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#403457 - 04/22/14 03:19 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5802
Loc: Some random location
Are there hearing aids you can get for this? or would that be a silly question in this instance.

And, welcome to the forums, btw.

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#403460 - 04/22/14 03:52 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
Welcome, Lance.

Have you tried increasing the level of the center channel a few (or more) dBs in your processor/receiver?

Many of us find that increasing the level of the center a bit, relative to the other speakers, helps intelligibility.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#403463 - 04/22/14 05:22 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
+1 to what Mark said.

Also, try playing with the (seemingly endless number of) surround/processing modes available. Likewise, try both using AND disabling whatever room correction you have available (MCACC, YPAO, Audyssey, etc.).
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#403464 - 04/22/14 05:27 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
+1 to what Tom said.

Also, see if your receiver allows for EQing channels separately. You might want to bump up the 2kHz to 8kHz range.

Use some caution with bumping it up too much, though. You can add a lot to the load of the tweeters if you bump up thew channel, EQ it a little brighter, and play the system relatively loud.

Finally, if your receiver offers custom "modes", you might be able to maintain one setting for yourself and one for your wife....kind of like car seats with a couple of different "driver memories".

(That last analogy wasn't really necessary, but there's a guy on here...Ken...who LOVES car analogies!)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#403465 - 04/22/14 05:28 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
BTW, Tom: ::fistbump::
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#403467 - 04/22/14 05:37 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
Lance_H Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 2
Yeah, done most if not all that; however, I do have a call in to my hearing aid Doc. The new blutooth hearing aids that will work so famously with the new receiver will cost me as much as the whole sound system. Yee haw!

Thanks everyone.

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#403482 - 04/22/14 09:54 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Lance, another welcome to Axiom. You've already gotten some good suggestions here, but depending on the extent of your hearing damage, none of the adjustments that we suggest may be enough. I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but I've done quite a bit of reading on hearing damage from high sound levels and have noted with dismay some comments on various audio forums about "liking it loud" and referring rather casually to extensive listening at levels in the 100dB area, which is well into the danger zone.

Many center channels in movies are mixed at a low level with respect to the other content, and making a 3-4dB boost in the center from the balanced level set with test tones can help with this part of the problem. Your situation however compounds the difficulty by apparently adding losses in the upper mid/lower treble frequencies(about 2-6KHz, see this brief discussion ) which affect the consonants most strongly and can make speech intelligibility poor even at loud levels.

It's highly unlikely that a speaker with a "colored" mid/high frequency response could be more than at best a hit-or-miss proposition with its uneven or distorted response "correcting" the problem in differentiating the consonants. The Yamaha that you're getting may be more helpful in that it has, as do most receivers with equalizing circuitry, a manual Parametric equalizer option which can be set to affect a few specific frequency bands. Try setting the center channel band or bands in the 2-6KHz consonant area up maybe 5-6dB.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#403484 - 04/22/14 11:49 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
My wife suffers from some high frequency hearing loss and a constant ringing in her ears. She has always had issues with dialog intelligibility. I went from the VP150 to the VP180 and it was better, but the biggest improvement came when I added acoustical panels to my room in order to reduce flutter echo from the sound from the speakers just bouncing all around the room. While I treated the whole room (and could even go further with the treatments) putting a panel at the first reflection point on the right and left walls in relationship to the center channel (which in my case also happens to help with the front left and right channels as well) the ability to hear people speaking has dramatically improved.

We used to have to hold on to the remote and adjust the volume up and down between loud action scenes and talking scenes in my previous theater spaces. Not as much in my current space (I have the whole front wall behind my screen and speakers already treated and went to the VP180), but those 2" OC703 filled 24" x 48" panels that have a 1.5" air gap behind them did wonders.

Now, I have a dedicated space which makes that easier, but if you are even remotely OK with DIY, you can have custom art printed on fabric for some panels that can fit just about any decor. I have been quite active over at AVS with testing of fabric types (just ordered a new fabric type sample tonight even though I am done making my panels) and they are really cheap and easy vs. paying for some company to make them.

If you decide that you can put some sort of panels up in your space, let me know and I can help to guide you with how to construct them and get the artwork printed for a really inexpensive price.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#403489 - 04/23/14 12:19 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 761
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Lance_H
I have high frequency hearing loss, which means I can hear dialogue but can't understand it well because I cannot differentiate consonants well.

I have the 180 center speaker now, with M80s on the side. I'm still not understanding movie dialogue. I have a new Yamaha Aventage RX-A3030 on the way hoping that might help (running a Denon 3312 now with a Behringer to push the M80s).

I've seen comments to the effect that Klipsh speakers are colored in the treble range. Wouldn't that help me? What center speaker brand might help me since the Axiom isn't working for me, though my wife loves it?


I doubt if a speaker change is necessary nor would I think it would be of any benefit to you anyway. The Yamaha AVRs(I have one of the new Aventage CX-A5000 Pre-Pros)which is very similar in features to the 3030, has a very good parametric equalizer that you can adjust in multiple frequencies manually on each channel including subs. You will get more out of how to do it by looking at the manual on the disc that is supplied or on the Yamaha website.

It is just a matter of bringing up the "set-up" menu on the left side of the screen, click on the speaker icon at the bottom, press "manual" and OK which is a the top of the screen and it will then bring up the speaker choices on the left. You will then press "parametric EQ" and it will bring up the choices in which you will then press "manual". You will want to do this for the center channel alone leaving everything else in the "flat" configuration, however, after finding the right set-up for you and it will require some experimentation, it may be necessary to boost the higher frequencies in all the other channels as well. I doubt if implementing the "YPAO" room correction system would be of any value to you.

Being able to boost frequencies in the mid-upper range of the centre channel alone would more than likely be able to compensate for your hearing loss in those critical frequency ranges. Of course, the small problem is that if somebody else with "normal" hearing comes in to your room to watch a movie, the high frequency range boost would probably be somewhat irritating for them, however, too bad, its your stuff.

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#403491 - 04/23/14 12:34 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: JohnK]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4788
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Lance, another welcome to Axiom. You've already gotten some good suggestions here, but depending on the extent of your hearing damage, none of the adjustments that we suggest may be enough.

Many center channels in movies are mixed at a low level with respect to the other content, and making a 3-4dB boost in the center from the balanced level set with test tones can help with this part of the problem. Your situation however compounds the difficulty by apparently adding losses in the upper mid/lower treble frequencies(about 2-6KHz, see this brief discussion ) which affect the consonants most strongly and can make speech intelligibility poor even at loud levels.

It's highly unlikely that a speaker with a "colored" mid/high frequency response could be more than at best a hit-or-miss proposition with its uneven or distorted response "correcting" the problem in differentiating the consonants.


Yep.
Sorry Lance but JohnK makes the same points that came to my head.
If you damage the top 20 keys of the piano, it simply cannot play those keys anymore.
A call to a hearing specialist is the way to go.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#403493 - 04/23/14 01:12 PM Re: Help with center channel and my hearing loss [Re: Lance_H]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
I've been waiting for Sony's patented "beam into your brain" technology to come out. Screw the ethical issues or the idea that you could mind control people... It would be cool. Fully working ears not required...

Sony may one day beam sensory data into your brain (2005)
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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