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#404961 - 06/01/14 04:01 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
All the speakers you are using like most other manufacturers are standard 8 ohm spec. so it is not as if they are M80s or the other large models that spec. down to lower resistance. Sounds a little strange and perhaps you are playing them VERY loudly over an extended period so just maybe it's time for an outboard power amp. Even though I am using a Pre-Pro with separate power amps even prior to this with AVR's at high volumes, I have never encountered the shutdown issue you have experienced.

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#404964 - 06/01/14 04:17 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1189
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Originally Posted By: jhas
Appreciate the response....

The receiver sits in a open stand with plenty of air flow. My settings while watching the movie last night was -9.5. Loud, but not to loud..... In the music DVD mode I cranked it to -2.0 and had it clip. Still need to switch to small fronts and experiment.
Magnolia salesperson is coming over to insure I have it setup correctly. Ha!

The room is an "A" frame cabin with tall ceilings. Mains are 7 ft to listener position and the rears above the listener at 7ft high. Hopefully it is the receiver........

Thanks


Jhas, setting up a fan is a simple and quick way to eliminate heat as a possibility. It amazes me that receivers only use passive cooling. They , like computers create a lot of heat. Perhaps you have a mechanic friend who has a infrared thermometer you can borrow. I own one and it is handy to have, I use it to check temps on my computers etc. Heat is the enemy and it works quietly and slowly.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#404974 - 06/01/14 10:23 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
JH, welcome. The first point is that although you use the term "clipping", the problem that you describe has nothing to do with that; shutting down is an entirely separate issue. If the similar problem four years ago was corrected with a replacement M60(did you learn what the exact problem with it was?), the Pioneer receiver obviously wasn't the culprit.

Now you've added the VP-160 and a new Pioneer and a similar problem has re-appeared. The Axioms have no unusual impedance characteristic that the Pioneers(and other similar receivers)can't handle with ease if the speakers aren't defective. Since the VP-160 caused no problem when it was connected as one of the two mains in stereo, it appears that it's okay.

One of the most common causes of a receiver shutting down isn't some design inadequacy but rather a problem in the external wiring which causes an intermittent short. Although you say that you "re checked" the wiring, did you actually disconnect and very carefully redo the wiring to make sure that there wasn't a loose strand which could make contact, or did you just inspect it. If you haven't done this, it should be done and has corrected many mysterious shut downs in the past. Obviously the new receiver required making new connections which could be causing the issue.

Your equipment is fine and should have no overheating or other problem at the moderately loud levels(e.g., -9.5)which you mention.

Regardless of the present problem, you should make full use of your excellent EP-500 sub by setting all speakers "small" with a crossover of perhaps 80Hz, so that the EP-500 can do what you paid for.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#404978 - 06/02/14 02:22 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: JohnK]
Crimson Wrath Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 86
Loc: NC
Already said, but if the other solutions don't work for you regarding wiring and crossover settings, if able, get a separate amp. You'll most likely notice a difference in the fullness of sound and will be happy that you made the upgrade.
_________________________
M60|VP150|2xQS8|PSA XS30+Epik Empire|Pioneer Kuro 6010FD|PS3|Denon AVR-X4000|Parasound 5250v.2|

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#404992 - 06/03/14 03:45 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5849
Loc: Some random location
I'm late to this conversation, but oh well.

I've used 2 differ Pioneer Elites. Currently have 2 M22's connected to both mains, and an M22 plus a VP160 connected to the center channel. This lowers the OHM value tremendously for all 3 of the fronts. I've never experienced any trouble.

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#405090 - 06/05/14 12:30 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: CatBrat]
jhas Offline
regular

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 6
Finally home to check all those ideas......
Changed the receiver to "large" on the fronts and small on center.
Center is -2.5 along with the mains.
Cranked up a meatloaf concert from Australia and worked my way to +1.5 lasted 3 minutes.

SHUTDOWN

Changed settings to all "small" and ran it at +1.0 for 20 minutes with NO shutdown

All wires across the front were replaced and re-connected before the experiment began.

Spend some time this weekend to be sure, but my final thoughts are the receiver
Can't have the mains set to large and crank it into the +1 to +5 range
Just weird because my older elite could handle it.

Cheers

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#405092 - 06/05/14 12:55 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4455
Loc: Marion, IA
If you have a sub, then you generally want all other speakers set to small anyway. If you are listening to 2-channel music, then you should only be driving those front 2 channels (I know that is sounds redundant, but some people miss the obvious. LOL) and then they can be set to large. Then you aren't driving a center, surrounds, or sub (yeah, yeah, I know... The sub is more of a "line out" vs power.)
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#405107 - 06/05/14 05:45 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1189
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Nick, there are more discs coming out all the time with 7 channel music on them and for some reason many people like to listen to 7 channel stereo , which is what its called on my Yamaha. I am a purist and believe 2 channel is the correct way though I do use the sub to carry the bass. I have on occasion listened to 5 channel stereo and it does sound good but something tells me its just wrong LOL. Either the draw is more than the amp in the receiver can handle or its thermal shutdown. Shorted cables would cause it to shut down immediately.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#405108 - 06/05/14 06:58 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: jhas
Finally home to check all those ideas......
Changed the receiver to "large" on the fronts and small on center.
Center is -2.5 along with the mains.
Cranked up a meatloaf concert from Australia and worked my way to +1.5 lasted 3 minutes.

SHUTDOWN

Changed settings to all "small" and ran it at +1.0 for 20 minutes with NO shutdown

All wires across the front were replaced and re-connected before the experiment began.

Spend some time this weekend to be sure, but my final thoughts are the receiver
Can't have the mains set to large and crank it into the +1 to +5 range
Just weird because my older elite could handle it.

Cheers


That's good news. Your initial findings say you don't need to spend any additional money on external amps.

I think the M60's when played full range the midrange tries to play down as low and loud (as it possibly can) along with the bass drivers and your receiver doesn't like that at higher output.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#405114 - 06/05/14 10:25 PM Re: My receiver is clipping at high volumes! [Re: jhas]
jhas Offline
regular

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 6
Bad news......
I agree that a shorted speaker cable would happen at a nominal output.
Watching Lone Survivor on DVD, and it shutdown 3 times at a normal listening levels.

Back to Bestbuy it goes.........

The saga continues!

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