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#406300 - 07/22/14 01:28 PM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I guess I meet the "at least 4" thick" criteria for sure laugh

It's not in the picture, but there's also a 4" thick panel mounted vertically on the left edge of the wall, with a 4" air gap behind it so essentially all of the non-glass area in the corner is covered by trap. Adding the panel seemed to help a bit but it's hard to be sure without test equipment -- seemed to help anyways.

Initial tests had 8" thick SnS straddling the corners, but results were not as good as stacking everything in one corner. I think that was because most of the corners didn't actually have much bass signal due to the funky floorplan... so traps put there were semi-wasted.

Since all of my wall-wall corners are at least 50% glass I figure the straddling model doesn't work so well because bass is not reflected back from the glass. That doesn't explain the difference between the front left corner and the rest though.

Internet research (there's an oxymoron for you) suggests that the peak of the cathedral ceiling would be a good place to trap but I'm not going up there to check -- guess I need a microphone on a stick so I can go bass hunting without having to get my head 20 feet up.

Until I find more bass somewhere though, I guess the big pile stays.


Edited by bridgman (07/22/14 01:32 PM)

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#406305 - 07/23/14 01:53 PM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Moved the M40s upstairs to the HT area and brought the M60s downstairs for music. Definite improvement -- apart from the obvious "slightly more forward" sound of the M60s their ability to play louder made a big difference.

The M40s could play jazz or chamber music as loudly as anyone would want but weren't really comfortable at the levels you need for rock & orchestra.

Upstairs, of course, different story. The M60s were already running as Small with low frequencies going to an EP500 and an SVS PC-Plus 20-39 plugged for 16 Hz and center channel handled by a VP180, so the M40s didn't have to work nearly as hard in the HT system as they did playing full range music.

The Boston Cherry finish doesn't fit in with the upstairs decor any better than it did with the downstairs decor, but at least it's usually dark up there.

I guess some kind of v4 High Power in Knotty Pine needs to be somewhere in my future.

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#406306 - 07/23/14 03:01 PM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1133
The HP's are so subtly different in all the right ways.
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#406514 - 08/11/14 09:57 PM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
OK, so I finally found my bass - but I have no idea why it builds up where it does or what to do about it. I had already discovered the first part of the bass buildup and put a trap there (3 sheets of Roxul ComfortBoard vertically across the wall corner), but when I found a longer playing bass track and went further into the bedroom I found even more bass.

Rough floor plan below. The area to the left (above speakers & listening position) is open to a cathedral ceiling, while the center section is under a loft (beams & 2x6 T&G) and the right section is ground-floor only with conventional trusses above. The primary bass buildup is a few feet to the right of where the loft starts.



Only clue so far is that the cathedral ceiling is in sort of a cross shape above the area with bass buildup -- will try to figure out how to photograph or draw that.

EDIT -- here's a pic with details of the loft. Listening position in the following pic is for the HT area, not the stereo system in the living room on ground floor. Also the piano did not "go there" in the end, it didn't really fit up the stairs so it's still on the ground floor.



I guess the bass is building up under the peak where the wall and ceiling raise up. But why there rather than under the peak WHERE I PUT THE COUCH AND THE LISTENING POSITION ?

Stupid bass...

At least I may have found something worse than a square room cry


Edited by bridgman (08/11/14 10:11 PM)

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#406515 - 08/12/14 01:20 AM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
OK, the bass build-up is definitely right under the peak of the ceiling where it joins the wall. When time next permits I'll put a bass-heavy track on again and go up in the loft to see if there's a build-up of bass there as well, or up in the peak.

If so, then I guess that's where the next bass traps go. I can't add any more downstairs because there's no free space in the high-bass areas, but it would be really convenient if I could put them upstairs where the piano was supposed to go (but closer to the wall).

I'm seriously thinking about revisiting the room layout -- maybe start by putting an M60 in the current listening position then doing a sub crawl to see where the bass ends up and hopefully find a potential speaker position.

I'm already envisioning some kind of bizarre outcome where the ideal speaker position is 11 feet off the ground in the living room and the ideal listening position is 4 feet up a tree out in the yard frown


Edited by bridgman (08/12/14 01:21 AM)

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#406517 - 08/12/14 06:50 AM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Wish I had some answers for you, John, but I feel for you. I'm pretty sure I've got a bass null on my couch again.
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#406526 - 08/12/14 10:11 AM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I really wish we had moved Dennis's EP-600's into the computer room and confirmed that the bass then showed up in the living room. Otherwise this all seems like voodoo.

EDIT - deleted most of the post, need to stop futzing with the system and enjoy it for a while.

"Bass null on the couch" seems to be one of those things that happens every time you have a reasonable furniture layout. The solution seems to be dedicating everything to the needs of your audio system. Not unlike owning a cat, I guess.


Edited by bridgman (08/12/14 10:45 AM)

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#406528 - 08/12/14 11:46 AM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4850
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: bridgman

EDIT - deleted most of the post, need to stop futzing with the system and enjoy it for a while.


Are you kidding?
This is the best post i've seen in a long while.
Keep going!
Would be interesting to see frequency response graphs before and after all your changes, if you were to go that far with software and a good mic.

I'm guessing with all the photos that you got onto high speed internet at some point.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#406529 - 08/12/14 12:15 PM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: chesseroo]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5448
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
OK, maybe I'll keep going then. Every addict needs an enabler.

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Would be interesting to see frequency response graphs before and after all your changes, if you were to go that far with software and a good mic.

Yeah, I figure that needs to be the next step. A lot of what I'm hearing & and tweaking only shows up in reverb time measurements and waterfall charts.

IIRC my Radio Shack SPL meter had a suitable mic and an output jack for the computer, but it's been working its way around my friends' HT systems and nobody seems to know where it is at the moment. It's probably in a toolbox somewhere under a flywheel puller and a pile of hammers.

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
I'm guessing with all the photos that you got onto high speed internet at some point.

Good catch. A couple of years back I held my nose and signed up for cellular modem service from Bell, using an integrated modem/router so I could plug in my Linux systems. The data limits are worse than what I was moving over dial-up (past 10GB a month you basically give them your entire paycheck) and the service goes out randomly & frequently, but on average it's better than dial-up.

We had a big country music festival across the road recently (Boots & Hearts), and my internet service was down for ~4 days as 30,000 people were loaded onto our local cell tower, which normally handles ~10 square miles and ~50 people.


Edited by bridgman (08/12/14 12:31 PM)

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#406545 - 08/13/14 11:54 AM Re: Stupid Room Tricks [Re: bridgman]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4850
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: bridgman
OK, maybe I'll keep going then. Every addict needs an enabler.

Well i'm always good for stirring the pot!
wink

Some day i'll graph my room as well. I have the sound meter, but no mic although i might be able to borrow a good one from a friend.
Then i just need a laptop...or, if anyone has tried, could this be run from a Nexus pad?
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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