Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M80 v4 HP vs M100 v4.

I started to write a quick blurb yesterday and ended up deleting it.
It started with the quotes from Home Theater Shack's $3000 review, specifically that the M100 will likely need more room around it than the M80HP.

My experience with the M80 and the M80HP's was an eye opener, literally.

I had a few weeks with both pairs connected on a switcher and had plenty of time (an hour a day or so) with both playing different content.

At first I was listening for just the difference in bass output. It wasn't until the stars aligned and I was able to listen without distraction, could be focused in every possible way, that I heard exactly how they sounded different. I swapped locations just to be sure it wasn't just the locations...

I had been switching between them, eyes closed in my darkened room, when it got me. I could see (in my mind) clearly defined objects in space, even from outside the physical boundaries of the room. It literally opened my eyes(it startled me).
The "defined objects in space" weren't not comparable with anything I had ever experienced. Many times in the past I had clearly pictured artists in front of me. I thought I had experienced a little bit of everything that could be experienced with 2 channel audio before that moment. In the moment the objects were more like, for lack of a better description, dark cloud like blotches in the locations an instrument or singer was located, in many cases moving as though the artist was walking across the stage. It was very memorable but difficult to put into words.
It wasn't that the HP's were night and day until that moment. The next night I experienced the same involvement/realistic presentation/surprise, I packed up the M80's. They sat packaged at the bottom of the stairs ready to ship for another few weeks.

Never before had I ever experienced or felt the feeling, almost like the singers were there, looking at you, no descriptor for that feeling.

Still very satisfied.

Sorry, my comment did not include details, but like TAM, I set my EP350 to blend, and do not adjust it at all.

Thanks BRWSAW
Was that M80v4 or v3 ?
I guess that's where, Brad is talking about the differences in the crossovers what you are hearing.
Another thing I realized with your comment and saw it before ..... M100 need room. My room is 11.5' x 18 x 7.5.
My M80's are about 9" from the rear to the beack wall. I am hearing that the M100's need 24" I don't have the room for that.

BBIBH, yes .. I think I was referring more to CAT response on can always turn the sub down. Sorry, to mix you up there.
I find if I have a sub, been there done that. With the M80's I find with music, and I know the volumn thing ..... that if I am listening to music I want to dial the sub back to like 3. But in Movies, put it back to 5 ish.

Hmmmm, now that I am thinking, if I have two subs and setup the Anthem I can always adjust the lev on the sub lower for the music setting. I am going to have to see if the individual settings are for both Music and Movies or if they are independant.

I like BRWSAW's review though in the difference and maybe I need a v4. I have v3's

I do that on a rare occasion, when not satisfied with the bass.

The M80's were V3 and the HP's are labeled V3 but were built right when all the changes happened. They shipped with V3 tweeters which Axiom nicely replaced with the V4's.

I should note our room dimensions are similar and, to date, the HP's sound their best/most natural with the front baffle nearly 4' into the room. I will (can't help myself) adjust this soon but this is a big consideration.

I'd suggest moving the M80 a little further out into the room, even a couple 2-3 inches, and if possible try positioning the tweeters about 28" (make sure the distance to the front wall and rear wall, when measured from the front baffle are not identical, 1:1.3 was recommended somewhere...)from the side walls and toe them in ever so slightly. The walls of my towers are parallel to the side walls. Its worth a shot and the difference may surprise you.

The seating position has a lot to do with what you hear as well, moving you seat (ears) +/-1" of the center line of the room worked well for me.

The divisions used for seat and speaker placement can have an effect on bass quality. Please consider the following...

http://www.magicgardenmastering.com/SpeakerSetUp.pdf

"It’s important to remember is that the room can be divided into far more than just
quarters or thirds. At even divisions the bass is reinforced and at odd divisions the bass
is canceled."

re: lowered 1992 Honda Accord Wagon. I think I've been misunderstood (like I told my parents 40+ years ago!).

My ep500 is not adjusted improperly.

For most recordings made within this century (and a good part of the previous decade), I am not missing something, in my ears or my in head, without the sub on. I have a very dead room; WTW, fl to ceil. hvy lined draperies; WTW on the draperies as well on or three of four walls. No leather furniture---and a 50 lb., dbl.-coated dog in a sheep-fur-lined "daybed." I'm talkin' dead!

If you frequently average listening levels exceeding 95 db, those 3 HD speakers in each cabinet are there for a reason, hence the name "HD." They ain't kiddin'!

In addition, the insides of the cabinets are different from an M100 to any 80. It's supporting a 3rd woofer in each cabinet. It has to be bigger. The crossovers on the 100's use a unique algorhthym, specific to, and exclusive to themselves. Like I said, They are their own beasts.

If you "dare" to order them, be sure you really have the $$, or at least the headroom on your plastic. You WILL NOT be sending them back. And it will have nothing to do with anything I've said here. You'll be transported and you won't be thinking. You will have on a stupid grin that your wife or girlfriend, or both, will want to slap off of your face.

They are a ridiculous value, even in wood (there he goes!)

A 40+ plus year friend of mine got a pair of speakers for his 60th last year and he's been looking forward to having me stop by and give 'em a spin. I've been putting it off. I'm sure he already knows his can't sound like my 60's (he LOVED them), because they're bookshelves. However, they're B & W's that Janet forked over almost $3g's for. He will want to make plans then to come over and hear MY new speakers. In vinyl, they're about the cost of his. These will kill him, just kill him. Of course, she did it to keep from having two floor-standers show up at the back door some day.

The magic garden tutorial seems to indicate placing speakers where they excite room modes is ideal? This is contrary to the purist philosophy of sound reproduction techniques. -but definitely valuable if low frequency augmentation is the goal.

Sitting near the rear wall is also mentioned. If room modes are intentionally excited, the rear wall is probably a good bet to ensure the mlp isnt in a deep null as a result.

Nick and I touched on speaker placement as a speculative design factor in his build thread. I'm glad you posted this link to consider factors in my own room. I found hints of this technique in F.Altons Everest books, but never a direct reference.

Thanks again for the link! Fascinating.

I should clarify I just happened upon that link recently.
Interestingly many of the details I've read in the past are summed up there, thats why I posted it.

There are quite a few calculators on line, I have a few more specific locations to try out.

Bob, did I read that right, you have 3 M100's?

Or when trying to control the amount of perceived bass.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Blair. I have only "the two." I was referring to the 3 HP woofers in each cabinet. I also kept calling them HD's instead of HP's. Alphabet soup. They're both actually---High Power and High Def. Compared to what we've all been accustomed to, these ARE High Definition, for sure.

Stay tuned for BobKay's Special Upgrade Program. Details to follow soon.