Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M80 v4 HP vs M100 v4.

Ok,
is there a big noticable difference between these two speakers ?

Not at extreme volumn levels but above normal listening. even at just a normal sit back and relax to some concert video or cd's does the bottom end become more noticeable over the other.
I have the M80 v3 and at just a good listening level I would say -15 on my HK 165w reciever, which is probably just for arguements sake about 4 on the dial. I find just not the punch of the bass drum. It's kind of laid back abit ( soft )

Let's said THe Eagles Hell Freezes Over track one, when they start out with The Long Run. The beginning part just seems not quite there. But, if I turn it up a few notches then it starts to show up.
Probably best just throw ina sub right ?

With my diminutive M2s each with their own EP-400 (2CH audio only), rest assured nothing is missing. Just dial in the lower end to suit your taste.

Sub(s) are an excellent way to go IMO, even with towers...

TAM

I agree with the sub - I added one to my M80's and it was a big step up.

Yeh, I was trying to avoid a sub for listening to music. But, maybe the best route is my M80 v3's and a couple good SVS Plus's or EP500's

The M-100's are such amazing, FULL RANGE loudspeakers, that I am never tempted to use the ep500 when listening to any music; new recordings, old recordings, great ones, not-so-great ones, and the vastness of music that is everything in between. Why fart around?

M3's are great! Two friends have them. Loved my 60's. A nearby friend has standard 80's---great speaker, awesome price. The 100's are not a subspecies, but a newly minted one, all to its own. I'm closing in on 10 months with them. I haven't been through all of my cd's yet, but each "first-timer" surprises me---still.

Some of this music I've been listening to for 50 years! Some of it was released last month. (The new Prince, eh, is "good." "Planet Earth " was better. The new Tom Petty---best record of his since "Full Moon Fever." Every track!)

For no amount of money could any music made from the 1950-80's sound THIS great at the time of its release! I'm listening to stuff like no one could possibly have been able to back when it was "new" music! That still "blows my mind, you cats."

OK, so I'm a purist, with lots of things. Using a sub with these, is for me, like turning them into a ghetto ride.

And if one were to really care about such things, I can feel these through my feet four rooms away, at "normal" listening levels. "Royals," by Lordes, feels like the house is gonna give way. Thankfully, still, not one thing in the house buzzes, like the trunk lid and door liners of aforementioned ghetto rides.

You can always turn the sub down.

Yes, agreed Brian.

Bob, a sub does not mean turning your home into a thumping 1999 Honda Civic tuner, it can be used to add to the music mix.

No ghetto ride in my house...

TAM

Thanks Bob, that's what I am looking for. A review from a user and not one of these pro-reviews.
Just wish I could get one person who had the M80's and upgraded and did a side by side comparison.
I know Ian said if I am using a sub with my M80's I wouldn't notice a difference.

Cat and BBIHB and TAM

No, Sorry I don't want to be getting up and turning the sub down and or up and down.

The Anthem Reciever will setup and calibrate for both a music setting no LFE and for Movies with LFE. So, I can watch or listen to music DVD in one Blu-ray player and movies in another.

Thanks all

I may have to send my M80's back for a year and get M100's

I have 2 X EP-800s in my HT (Audyssey optimized) & 2 X EP-400s in one of my audio only systems (M2s, subs set & tweaked by ear).

I haven't touched any of my sub's volumes since I initially set them up some time ago. Living with subs is not difficult & when properly set up, are most pleasing & enjoyable. My sats & subs audio system outperforms any reasonably priced, mainstream towers that I've auditioned. That's why I chose to go this way.

Just don't overdo the volume & they can blend seamlessly, at least for me in my rooms. Quality subs such as Axiom & other good brands when properly employed will not sound like a passing car playing objectionable noise like Rap.

Each to his own...

TAM

I started to write a quick blurb yesterday and ended up deleting it.
It started with the quotes from Home Theater Shack's $3000 review, specifically that the M100 will likely need more room around it than the M80HP.

My experience with the M80 and the M80HP's was an eye opener, literally.

I had a few weeks with both pairs connected on a switcher and had plenty of time (an hour a day or so) with both playing different content.

At first I was listening for just the difference in bass output. It wasn't until the stars aligned and I was able to listen without distraction, could be focused in every possible way, that I heard exactly how they sounded different. I swapped locations just to be sure it wasn't just the locations...

I had been switching between them, eyes closed in my darkened room, when it got me. I could see (in my mind) clearly defined objects in space, even from outside the physical boundaries of the room. It literally opened my eyes(it startled me).
The "defined objects in space" weren't not comparable with anything I had ever experienced. Many times in the past I had clearly pictured artists in front of me. I thought I had experienced a little bit of everything that could be experienced with 2 channel audio before that moment. In the moment the objects were more like, for lack of a better description, dark cloud like blotches in the locations an instrument or singer was located, in many cases moving as though the artist was walking across the stage. It was very memorable but difficult to put into words.
It wasn't that the HP's were night and day until that moment. The next night I experienced the same involvement/realistic presentation/surprise, I packed up the M80's. They sat packaged at the bottom of the stairs ready to ship for another few weeks.

Never before had I ever experienced or felt the feeling, almost like the singers were there, looking at you, no descriptor for that feeling.

Still very satisfied.

Sorry, my comment did not include details, but like TAM, I set my EP350 to blend, and do not adjust it at all.

Thanks BRWSAW
Was that M80v4 or v3 ?
I guess that's where, Brad is talking about the differences in the crossovers what you are hearing.
Another thing I realized with your comment and saw it before ..... M100 need room. My room is 11.5' x 18 x 7.5.
My M80's are about 9" from the rear to the beack wall. I am hearing that the M100's need 24" I don't have the room for that.

BBIBH, yes .. I think I was referring more to CAT response on can always turn the sub down. Sorry, to mix you up there.
I find if I have a sub, been there done that. With the M80's I find with music, and I know the volumn thing ..... that if I am listening to music I want to dial the sub back to like 3. But in Movies, put it back to 5 ish.

Hmmmm, now that I am thinking, if I have two subs and setup the Anthem I can always adjust the lev on the sub lower for the music setting. I am going to have to see if the individual settings are for both Music and Movies or if they are independant.

I like BRWSAW's review though in the difference and maybe I need a v4. I have v3's

I do that on a rare occasion, when not satisfied with the bass.

The M80's were V3 and the HP's are labeled V3 but were built right when all the changes happened. They shipped with V3 tweeters which Axiom nicely replaced with the V4's.

I should note our room dimensions are similar and, to date, the HP's sound their best/most natural with the front baffle nearly 4' into the room. I will (can't help myself) adjust this soon but this is a big consideration.

I'd suggest moving the M80 a little further out into the room, even a couple 2-3 inches, and if possible try positioning the tweeters about 28" (make sure the distance to the front wall and rear wall, when measured from the front baffle are not identical, 1:1.3 was recommended somewhere...)from the side walls and toe them in ever so slightly. The walls of my towers are parallel to the side walls. Its worth a shot and the difference may surprise you.

The seating position has a lot to do with what you hear as well, moving you seat (ears) +/-1" of the center line of the room worked well for me.

The divisions used for seat and speaker placement can have an effect on bass quality. Please consider the following...

http://www.magicgardenmastering.com/SpeakerSetUp.pdf

"It’s important to remember is that the room can be divided into far more than just
quarters or thirds. At even divisions the bass is reinforced and at odd divisions the bass
is canceled."

re: lowered 1992 Honda Accord Wagon. I think I've been misunderstood (like I told my parents 40+ years ago!).

My ep500 is not adjusted improperly.

For most recordings made within this century (and a good part of the previous decade), I am not missing something, in my ears or my in head, without the sub on. I have a very dead room; WTW, fl to ceil. hvy lined draperies; WTW on the draperies as well on or three of four walls. No leather furniture---and a 50 lb., dbl.-coated dog in a sheep-fur-lined "daybed." I'm talkin' dead!

If you frequently average listening levels exceeding 95 db, those 3 HD speakers in each cabinet are there for a reason, hence the name "HD." They ain't kiddin'!

In addition, the insides of the cabinets are different from an M100 to any 80. It's supporting a 3rd woofer in each cabinet. It has to be bigger. The crossovers on the 100's use a unique algorhthym, specific to, and exclusive to themselves. Like I said, They are their own beasts.

If you "dare" to order them, be sure you really have the $$, or at least the headroom on your plastic. You WILL NOT be sending them back. And it will have nothing to do with anything I've said here. You'll be transported and you won't be thinking. You will have on a stupid grin that your wife or girlfriend, or both, will want to slap off of your face.

They are a ridiculous value, even in wood (there he goes!)

A 40+ plus year friend of mine got a pair of speakers for his 60th last year and he's been looking forward to having me stop by and give 'em a spin. I've been putting it off. I'm sure he already knows his can't sound like my 60's (he LOVED them), because they're bookshelves. However, they're B & W's that Janet forked over almost $3g's for. He will want to make plans then to come over and hear MY new speakers. In vinyl, they're about the cost of his. These will kill him, just kill him. Of course, she did it to keep from having two floor-standers show up at the back door some day.

The magic garden tutorial seems to indicate placing speakers where they excite room modes is ideal? This is contrary to the purist philosophy of sound reproduction techniques. -but definitely valuable if low frequency augmentation is the goal.

Sitting near the rear wall is also mentioned. If room modes are intentionally excited, the rear wall is probably a good bet to ensure the mlp isnt in a deep null as a result.

Nick and I touched on speaker placement as a speculative design factor in his build thread. I'm glad you posted this link to consider factors in my own room. I found hints of this technique in F.Altons Everest books, but never a direct reference.

Thanks again for the link! Fascinating.

I should clarify I just happened upon that link recently.
Interestingly many of the details I've read in the past are summed up there, thats why I posted it.

There are quite a few calculators on line, I have a few more specific locations to try out.

Bob, did I read that right, you have 3 M100's?

Or when trying to control the amount of perceived bass.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Blair. I have only "the two." I was referring to the 3 HP woofers in each cabinet. I also kept calling them HD's instead of HP's. Alphabet soup. They're both actually---High Power and High Def. Compared to what we've all been accustomed to, these ARE High Definition, for sure.

Stay tuned for BobKay's Special Upgrade Program. Details to follow soon.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Blair. I have only "the two." I was referring to the 3 HP woofers in each cabinet. I also kept calling them HD's instead of HP's. Alphabet soup. They're both actually---High Power and High Def. Compared to what we've all been accustomed to, these ARE High Definition, for sure.

Stay tuned for BobKay's Special Upgrade Program. Details to follow soon. [/quote]

No worries, I re-read it a time or two and understood (I think my dyslexia is getting worse)but it was too late to edit my post.

Brwsaw
Yes, I am about 27" from the front baffle to the rear wall toed in a bit.
I am not putting a speaker 4' into the room that would put it 3 ft in front of the TV and me seated too close to the back wall.
So, acording to BobKay the M80HP is far more above the M80 v3.

Ian mentioned, unless I am using the M80v3 at high volumn I would not notice a difference between the v3 or v4.

Also, according to the specs ( freq) charts, the difference is in the 40 hz region.Which is probably where that kick drum takes place. Now, I wish I had a M80 v3 chart to compare the v3 to the v4 ?

I am down to Keeping my v3 and just find a v3 VP180 and a sub (SVS Plus or EP500 not sure) eventually next summer a second sub or upgrading to M80 v4 HP and a VP180 HP.
The third option is to upgrade to M80v4 and a VP180v4.
hate decisions.
my listening levels are probably 80db movies and maybe 90 db for music

I look forward to hearing M100's, I'm certain Bob's has no regrets.

I'd assume Ian was commenting on a standard M80V3 vs standard M80V4?

I hate to say anything negative about the M80, it was a nice sounding speaker. I like the HP's better. Will you, or any one else? I can't say.

The tipping point for me was the excellent trade in value which was too good to pass up (a second time).

The subtle improvement and new level of satisfaction is the bonus.

Yeh, I think the only difference between the M80v3 and v4 are the crossover and tweeters. And of course the diecast around the woofer drivers but that doesn't change anything.
And the only thing different reallywith the redished tweeter is the heatsink for higher volumn, which doesn't matter to me and the area above 12K which I probably can't hear.
So, I think Ian meant between the v3 and v4 I shouldn't notice any difference. Specially if I am using a sub.

Where I will notice a difference should be in the HP, and only if I am no sub for music and at higher volumns.

You are correct, sir! I have zero regrets. Yes, the tipping point was the trade in value they offered for my 60's. I would still be thoroughly delighted had I paid full price for them. Their value is absurd.

So, do I buy a completely loaded Chevy BelAir 6, or do I get the Impala V8? My Dad always got the BelAir. Don't be my Dad.

The thing to keep in mind is what you are looking to get out of your speakers at the end of the day when you turn on the music and listen.

I had a set of M80 v4 speakers and they did sound fantastic. They were night and day better than the older Engergy C3 speakers that I had, regardless of if I used them with or without a sub.

But I ended up getting the much larger and much more expensive LFT1100 (that is your M100 and then some)

What the improvement night and day over the M80s?? NO. Was there an improvement? Yes, and it was enough to take me from smiling about is sounding great, to ear to ear beaming that the sound I was getting was incredible. For me it was worth that extra $3000 more when you start to add in all the costs.

Sometimes the added extra that you are getting is not something that you can point a finger at and say "there it is" sometimes it is the subtle points that trigger something inside you that you can't really say what but as a whole makes it just that much better.

It's the point of diminishing returns where only you can say if that extra bit of money was worth it.

Does anybody use the LFT1100's in a home theater setup? So far, it seems to only be used in a stereo mode, from what I've seen here.

Yep. This.

I do. In my case, it is combined with a VP180HP and some old, cheaper, non-Axiom surrounds that need upgrading. It works VERY well.

Any more questions?

Actually when I upgraded from v3 to v4HP, I think the biggest difference I noticed was in the tweeters. This is especially because the difference is pronounced even starting from moderate volumes.

To be clear, the v4 tweeters just flat out sound better than the v3.

I did an AB with a late M80v3 (with v4 cross overs) and a new M100. The differences are in low frequencies and high frequencies - but only at seriously loud listening levels. Look at the thread "M100 new purchase).

Sincerely,
Bapcha

I tested M80 H.P.s and M100's at Axiom's listening room and (disclaimer: I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination)I preferred the M80 H.P.'s. Cleaner Mids and Highs to my ears. Spent about an hour going back and forth between them with the A/B switch listening to different music. I wanted to like the 100's better but I didn't.