 Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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A dying display has opened the possibility of a true home theater setup to me. The last few years has brought a huge improvement to projectors including those available at bargain basement prices that make even a cheap ass bugger frugal person like me sit up and take notice. Today I was able to see an Epson 8350 (very similar to the BenQ W1070 I can afford) in action today and wow, was I impressed. While it did not deliver inky blacks of a projector like the Panny AE8000, they were quite good: better than the blacks on my dying RPTV. I was even impressed by the image in ambient light. Watching the Leafs lose their Sunday game again upgraded the team from plain aweful to awesomely aweful and quite watchable on a 106" screen.  The screen, at $700, was of 'cheap' Chinese manufacture and showed a little hotspotting on sceens with mostly white, but I could probably get used to that. On most sceens the image was very good. I thought I knew what layout and screen type I wanted, but spending time in that demo room talking to the dealer has made me rethink my possibilities. I'll post up my current layout and point out the three options I have along with a bunch of questions. I'm sure you guys will guide me to the right choice. The plan is to clean up the room, reorganize it and do the install in time for Christmas. Jingle bells... 
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Yay!
Althought I wouldn't call the AE8000 "inky blacks," the Epson 8350 is a nice unit for sure.
For $700, you can get a decent screen that doesn't hot-spot.
Carada is running a sale right now. I really liked my screen from them that I had for V2.0 and V3.0 of my theater. You can get a 118" screen for under $700 shipped to your door.
Or if you want acoustically transparent (to put the screen in front of your speakers and get that center channel behind your screen instead of above or below it), you should look at Seymour AV and their XD material. That is what I have now and love it. I went the DIY route and built a 138" screen using the Seymour XD material for about $400 with ALL materials.
Then there is Jamestown Home Theater Screens. Sort of a DIYer selling screens. Price is about in the middle of true DIY and the full retail products for the frames, but they go together in about 20-30 minutes and look nice when done. Screen materials are good too. He even has a Seymour XD screen option. His largest screen option with Seymour material is 150" and it is just $600 and would be way better than some "cheap screen.
Can't wait to see some layouts.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Nick, I hope you never leave this message board.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Nick, I hope you never leave this message board.
Fred
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Yay indeed! This has me very excited. There are all kinds of things you can do as soon as you move south of the 49th parallel. Us Canucks can only slurp our Timmies and shrug.  For instance. You can add $50 for shipping for just the screen material from Seymore. Add another $50 to 100 in 'customs' charges because they only ship via Fedex and the like. Oh yeah, our petro$ hasn't being doing so well lately. Sigh... I've been trying for the last half hour to upload some images to photobucket so I could post here. It seems the folks at corporate have been playing with browser security again. I'll post from home tomorrow. P.S. Nick, I love your enthusiasm.
Last edited by fredk; 11/07/14 02:37 AM.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Thanks guys. I just get excited about this stuff.
I forgot about all of the import/export fees. What a bummer, but still might be worth it as you should still be able to stay under that $700 number.
Maybe arrange for some midnight border crossing in the middle of some wooded area and save the $$$. LOL
I can see the headline now, "American and Canadian Arrested for Smuggling Home Theater Gear Through the Woods and Across the Border" OK. Maybe that is a LONG headline, but you get the idea.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Well, I could have Murph sail me across the border.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Fred, if you find products manufactured in the USofA there is no import duty which helps a lot. Having our dollar in the crappers is the hard part to swallow. Hopefully you can work it out.
Richard
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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I went through 4 8350's when they first came out in 2011?. Yes, four. Each one had issues on arrival. Fringing, lines, dust spots, horrible blacks. I ended up upgrading to a 8700ub and the difference was incredible. Sadly that 8700 also had an issue on arrival, replaced that as well with another. This was buying straight from Epson.
So, not sure if they fixed the issues over the years?
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Well, I could have Murph sail me across the border. Whoohoo!!! Road trip!
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Newf, were they refurbs from Epson?
I have heard if you ask for a replacement you may get a factory restored unit back.
I can say that the 3 units I have hands on experience with all had slight picture differences due to the 3LCD pixel alignment. It adds softness to the image and is typical of all 3LCD projectors afaik. Never had the other issues.
These differences were only really visible at 1' from the screen, and I had to point out the issue before it was even noticed. From the seating position it wasn't noticable.
Fred, if you can, I suggest buying at a brick and mortar so you can swap out to a new boxed unit in the unlikely event with whatever you buy. I will say that the 8350 was a massively successful projector and sold tons of units. Its not unreasonable that there were issues along the way in some units. Whenever I read about a user that swaps out a unit more than once (or several) my questions shift away from the units themselves. I think once you are bitten with a lemon, they all will have some imperfection that drives that user nuts.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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OK, picture time  Get rid of the blue lines and you see my current setup. I have the display sitting on a coffee table 7' out from the back wall. My fronts are either side of the diaplay and about 16" off the outside walls. This seemed the best layout for speakers given the awkward hallway layout for the livingroom. I was trying for similar reflection points on the left and right walls for stereo imaging. In the end, the couch against the wall blocks a significant portion of the reflections off the left wall and my soundstage is not great anyway. The grey box is where my HTPC and receiver are. Game boxes are under the display The big downside of this layout is all the cabling out in the middle of the room. Its butt ugly. All three potential layouts will see most of the electronics to the side of the room and will clean up the cabling a lot. While the main objective of this is to get me a gloriously huge image for movies, there are two other things I want to do: 1. Upgrade the mancave to something more respectable 2. Improve the soundstage for music. Back to the drawing. The blue lines represent the three potential display placements. The aquarium rack against the back wall goes no matter what layout I go to.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Some questions about the screen on the back wall (3).
How far off the screen can I put my mains without it affecting sound 'on the screen'?
As I see it, I have two choices: where they are now or with the front of the speaker 4' off the wall. If I put them any closer to the wall the front entrance hall is hopelessly blocked.
I'm thinking I could actually put a sliding door in front of the hall on the left to create reflection points for the left speaker.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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The reason I like #2 better is because of less light reflections from the balcony windows.
You could have couch against Kitchen wall, then 2 love seats on the sides, but angled (easier on the neck), with the ends against the couch and the other ends pulled back.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Is installing doors at both hallways an option?
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Is installing doors at both hallways an option? That's just way too much work for a rental apartment.
Fred
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Pretty picture for option 3: 
Fred
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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The scale of the drawing is off a little. I've come to realize that no matter what layout I use, the second couch will interfere with one speaker.  Option #2 represents the least amount of work. How sensitive is a painted screen to fingery paws? Option 3 puts the screen in front of a higher traffic area.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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 So,whereisalltheadvice?Whereisistwhereisit?Huh,huh?Whereisit?
Fred
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Just to totally 180 your train of thought. Can the screen pull down in front of your balcony window? Fixed frame is a bad idea personally. It will dominate your small space when you arent using it. This is not a dedicated space. It will look extremely "bachelor" in there otherwise.  The mains will flank the screen and you have 2 juicy walls for surrounds. The center channel will have to be mounted above the pulldown frame aiming at the listening position. When not watching a movie you are listening to tunes gazing out your balcony. Could be cool.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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2nd...
You could add a solid partition wall with 3' opening into the DR.
Black out cloth on the windows and a fold up screen and you're off.
Your mains will still be out into the room, the screen and speakers will be out of harms way, You could have two rows of seating,.....
Last edited by brwsaw; 11/07/14 11:43 PM.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Just to totally 180 your train of thought. Can the screen pull down in front of your balcony window? Fixed frame is a bad idea personally. It will dominate your small space when you arent using it. This is not a dedicated space. It will look extremely "bachelor" in there otherwise. The mains will flank the screen and you have 2 juicy walls for surrounds. The center channel will have to be mounted above the pulldown frame aiming at the listening position. When not watching a movie you are listening to tunes gazing out your balcony. Could be cool. This is what I was thinking as well. Put the screen in front of your major light source.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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 It works.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Just to totally 180 your train of thought. Can the screen pull down in front of your balcony window? Fixed frame is a bad idea personally. It will dominate your small space when you arent using it. This is not a dedicated space. It will look extremely "bachelor" in there otherwise. The mains will flank the screen and you have 2 juicy walls for surrounds. The center channel will have to be mounted above the pulldown frame aiming at the listening position. When not watching a movie you are listening to tunes gazing out your balcony. Could be cool. Well, that would be a step up. Hmm, I could turn it 180. Is it much better to have the ambient light source behind the screen? I would still have to have the M80s and screen well into the room to give the fronts equal first reflection points for proper stereo imaging. A pull down screen is not an option. I would need to go to tab tensioned to avoid wrinkles/waves and that's out of my price range.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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It works. Ya don't spose they photoshoped the image onto that screen do you?
Fred
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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buff
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buff
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Fred, have a look at Eastporters, in Hamilton Ontario. Tab-tensioned screens from six and change. I don't have a projector yet but I've been checking these out, owner reviews on forums are pretty good.
I don't know what they charge for shipping.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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2nd...
You could add a solid partition wall with 3' opening into the DR.
Black out cloth on the windows and a fold up screen and you're off.
Your mains will still be out into the room, the screen and speakers will be out of harms way, You could have two rows of seating,.....
Geez, are you trying to turn me into construction Bob? Its an apartment. I drive a Matrix. I do have a reasonable tool set, but by no means enough to start building walls.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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"Bob the builder! Can we fix it?...."
Just thinking the wall would help balance the boundary/stereo/image/yuh know whatcha ma call it.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Temporary wall, singular.
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Man, this sucks being on the other side of the "We like to spend your money" conversation I have a budget of $1,400 to $1,600 for this project. The projector is $950 all in. I figure $100 for an inexspensive equipment stand. Not sure what to do about a projector mount. That leaves $350 to $550 for everything else. I can get a decent budget fixed frame screen locally (Elunvision) for $350 to $400 (96 to 106 screen size). Given that, you can see the appeal of a screen painted on a wall, though you are right about how it might look. The other advantage of a wall painted screen is that I can play with screen size until I know what works for me for a given viewing distance. My original idea for a DIY screen was Wilsonart laminate on an aluminum frame. Which I'm guessing is in the $200 to $250 range.
Last edited by fredk; 11/08/14 02:48 AM.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Temporary wall, singular. Oh, and it a 3rd floor walk up with very narrow stairs. Just not gonna happen.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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On the wall won't be as nice as a big screen but its awesome nonetheless.
And it will be out of the way.
I think we all started that way (small budget, big HT dreams).
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...
I think we all started that way (small budget, big HT dreams). Yeah. On the wall will still be a step up for me. from what I understand, there are some simple paint mixes that would work at least as well as a budget screen at a much lower price. Just need to figure out a way to put some lipstick on that there piggy. So, as I see it, option one would give me the best layout for my livingroom, but some challenges getting to a decent looking DIY flip up. Option 2 would be the simplest with some furniture compromises and some possible boundry issues with sound.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Newf, were they refurbs from Epson?
I have heard if you ask for a replacement you may get a factory restored unit back.
I can say that the 3 units I have hands on experience with all had slight picture differences due to the 3LCD pixel alignment. It adds softness to the image and is typical of all 3LCD projectors afaik. Never had the other issues.
These differences were only really visible at 1' from the screen, and I had to point out the issue before it was even noticed. From the seating position it wasn't noticable.
Fred, if you can, I suggest buying at a brick and mortar so you can swap out to a new boxed unit in the unlikely event with whatever you buy. I will say that the 8350 was a massively successful projector and sold tons of units. Its not unreasonable that there were issues along the way in some units. Whenever I read about a user that swaps out a unit more than once (or several) my questions shift away from the units themselves. I think once you are bitten with a lemon, they all will have some imperfection that drives that user nuts. All were brand new. If you order from Epson, and get a DOA, call them within 30days, you get a new one not a refurb. The first one I got had convergence issues so bad I could not get a sharp picture. The 2nd had half the screen red, the next, half the screen blue, the next on a dark screen huge dust blobs and blacks were washed out. Over at AVS the forums were plagued by people with similar issues. I'm a not new to projectors. Besides home theater I see countless ones due to my job. The original release of the 8350 was a train wreck, and even their own techs informed me that they could not keep up with the replacements. Hence why I switched to the 8700. I'm just informing. This was years ago. Hopefully they got better and ironed the wrinkles out, but I'd visit the dedicated thread if I were you.
2xAA
M80/VP150/VP160/QS8
4xM3/M22OW/M2OW/VP150OW/4xM3IC/4xM3OW
EP500/800/HSU VTF3/SVS PB2k/SB2k/SB-12
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I'm glad they seem to have turned a 180 with those issues. They would have had to change their name to GM.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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I dream of walls...
Damn you brwsaw! A complete wall by the dining area is not practical, but a 4x8 melamine panel, some angle iron some concrete bolts, some trim... Could be done. I would have to split the panel to 2, 2x8 sheets to get it home.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Random thought. Stealth projection wall.
What if I were to paint the entire wall my screen colour and embed steel washers into the wall at strategic locations so I can magnetically attach a screen border to the wall when I want to watch something?
It would probably look odd with one wall projection screen grey...
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Or you could paint them all...
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At 10' the W1070 is going to crank out something like 27 fl of light at the screen in cinema mode. The grey is supposed to also reduce ambient light reflection and increase apparent black levels. I guess I could always put on my sunglasses.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Well then it's settled. You just have to move.
Was that helpful?
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Well then it's settled. You just have to move.
Was that helpful? Perfect. Is the spare bedroom ready yet? I'll help you rehang the screen when I get there.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Actually, its funny you post that because moving is actually a possibility. With my son off to college, I no longer need to live where I do.
It would be nice to be a little closer to work (like biking distance). I would be rather particular about where I move though.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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So, here is the most likely layout:  Advantages: 1. Paint on screen - simple, cost effective 2. No structural changes required 3. Should be able to get speakers close to equidistant from both side walls (good stereo imaging?) 4. Can easily move couches for good viewing for more than 3 people Disadvantages: 1. Ambient light from left side of screen during daytime casual viewing (not sure how much of that I'll do) 2. Boundary effects from kitchen wall 3. Viewing distance (really liked 10-12') Advantage #2 is huge considering I'm in a 3rd floor walk-up and, should the right place come along, I may well move. That said (written?), am I right in assuming that the screen in front of the ambient light source would actually be the most desirable location?
Fred
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That said (written?), am I right in assuming that the screen in front of the ambient light source would actually be the most desirable location?
Yes, I would vote for that. But hey, you are putting a projector in an apartment. Anything is better than no projector at all. Maybe heavy drapes are the key and stick with option 2?
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Yup, drapes are a must for critical viewing during the day. Again, I'm really not sure what my eventual usage pattern will be. Who knows, maybe I'll love Sunday afternoon PGA golf on a 100+" screen. I already have horizontal blinds on the balcony door that block a good 80% of the light. The plan is to put up a block-out curtain behind it. The one side of the curtain is almost always down, so it will hide the curtain nicely when its pulled back. I have a daughter who owns a sewing machine who also happens to rely on me for a good portion of her tuition. Being a parent has its advantages. So, the purge has begun. I've thrown out all the aquarium lighting and a bunch of associated junk. If I chip away at this an hour per night, It will be done in no time.
Fred
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If I chip away at this an hour per night, It will be done in no time. Famous last words. Don't worry, we will always be here to nag at you encourage you.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Hah. No kids. No honey do list. No problem.
Fred
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Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Thank you for the kind words of encouragement Nick. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some work to do.
::purge, purge. packity, packity. clean , clean, clean::
P.S. Enjoy the kids while they are young. They grow up and disappear more quickly than you would think possible.
Fred
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Scrapity, scrape, scrape...
Sand, sand...
Patch, patch.
Whew, that was tough!
Sigh, who am I kidding. I can't compete with hazmat suits, LVL beams and vapor barrier.
::slinks off in shame::
Fred
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This is actually ridiculously simple. I could already be projecting except that I'm holding off to see if there will be any Black Friday deals on the W1070.
The hardest part of all this seems to be finding a piece of furniture that will accommodate my equipment that is inexpensive, looks half decent and will fit my lower M2 center.
It seems I can have two of those three.
I've decided my best bet for this location is a low profile credenza style unit. If I had room to do some simple woodwork, it would be dead simple to build something that both looks very good and fits the location. Why don't apartments come with Mark S. Johnson type basements?
Fred
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Scrapity, scrape, scrape...
Sand, sand...
Patch, patch.
Whew, that was tough!
Sigh, who am I kidding. I can't compete with hazmat suits, LVL beams and vapor barrier.
::slinks off in shame:: When you are putting your feet up to watch a flick, months ahead of me, I'll be wishing I had your space. Post a pic when you are done!
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In the land of almost... The Besta bench would be perfect, but at 12 5/8" tall I would be surprised if I can fit an 11.5" speaker inside the middle section. The Lack bench that is 21" deep would work,but it lacks style to put it nicely. For a little bit more $, I may be able to get a local wood specialty shop to join and plane some boards for me out of something a little nicer. Say like this:  With the lumber properly dimensioned, simple case construction is something I could easily do.
Fred
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2 narrow stands, 1 on each side of the center.
Last edited by brwsaw; 11/17/14 01:27 AM.
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2 narrow stands, 1 on each side of the center.
Yup. Been on the lookout for something like that too. They need to be 16" deep to accommodate my receiver. Ikea has a nice unit, except it is only 12" deep. Two little units in black walnut or that cedar I posted would look very nice. That or one long unit about 14" tall with a single 12" shelf.
Fred
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Fred , don't forget about the plugs on the back. I am not sure what receiver you have but unless the back is open you will need it to be deeper.
Richard
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Thanks Richard. Yes, the plan is to go open one way or another. I hate having to pull components out of a cabinet to make changes to connections. It's much easier to just slide the whole babinet forward to get at wires.
Hmm, that is actually a big plus for two small cabinets. Much easier to rotate to get at the wires in back.
Thanks!
Fred
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Projector ordered. I found a Refurb unit from a Canadian retailer at $650. It doesn't get better than that. The lamp is guaranteed to be at 80% of life or better, so its a good deal all around.
Fred
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Yup. I'll be able to rearrange my furniture at least five times before it arrives.
Fred
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What sort of throw distance are you going to have fred. I look forward to you impressions, I have been hummin and hawwin about adding a projector with drop down screen for a few years and the prices are finally within reach.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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The throw distance will be between 10 and 11 feet so I'll be able to project a screen between 96" and 125".
The first step is to figure out what screen size I'm comfortable with. Once I know that, I'll sand and paint the screen area and get some sort of border up.
I'll definitely post my impressions as I go through the setup process.
Fred
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Wow, how do you mistype 519 as 910??? For some reason that little typo caused my phone number not to match what was on record with the cc company.  Order fixed, projector hopefully on the way now... So, some questions. I decided to measure a bit to figure out what length HDMI cable I would need. I think I'm looking at 35 feet. Looking at cables, there are now a number of options in performance, certified and even cables with extra-more (redmere). Would love a white cable to blend in with the paint, but I have not seen longer cables in white. So, if I want to do a 35 foot run, what cable do I need? Also, what sort of ceiling mount do you guys suggest? Again, there seems to be wide variety of choices.
Fred
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Fred, I don't have any long runs of HDMI but I am using the redmere cables from monoprice. They are nice and thin and flexible and work well. The longest I have used is 15ft and it works fine. I know they have more goodlier ones than what I use but if you buy from amazon you can pretty much return them no questions asked if it doesn't work out.
Richard
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Comes in white. Built to length. Kina spendy. They claim 1080p over 120' no signal loss.
Blue jeans cable
BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable
I am looking into these for 2 runs downstairs. I need about 25' or so.
Last edited by Serenity_Now; 11/22/14 08:09 PM.
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Comes in white. Built to length. Kina spendy. They claim 1080p over 120' no signal loss.
Blue jeans cable
BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable
I am looking into these for 2 runs downstairs. I need about 25' or so.
 Yikes! Things are starting to come together. I was trying to figure out how I could mount my projector and still have some flexibility in screen size. The limitation is that I want the right side of the screen up against the hallway. I did some measuring today and would need as much as 11" of travel left to right to accommodate that flexibility. I think I'm going to mount a 3' length of 8020 channel to the ceiling and then mount the projector to that. This way I don't have to drill new holes in the ceiling to move the projector. I found some 8020 in our plant that is only 1/2" x 1", so nice and low profile. And free when I ask nicely. That said, back to cables. I measured again and at the largest screen size I would just be able to get away with a 25' cable. At the smallest size I would need about 27'. I don't think I'm spending $100+ for an HDMI cable though. The 30' Monoprice Redmere cable is $40. That's about $50-$55 CDN in the door. At that price difference, I'll paint the cable if I have to. Oooh! If you want spendy and bragging rights, you could go with this optical HDMI cable.
Fred
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You might want to wait until you've projected an image before you install the mount.
Keep in mind the height of the screen will be the limiting factor, if you don't want your center channel in the image.
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Details, details... Hate the details, can't let them go... I think I've figured out a projector mount solution that will work for me. I'm leaning towards a Peerless mount that will allow for fine control of pitch, roll and swivel adjustment. The Monoprice redmere cable seems like the best solution for cabling given that I'm not running it in the wall. It gives me good cable flexibility for connecting to devices and is well within spec at 30' using my special formula of dividing the marketing spec number in half. Now I need to figure out the best way to run it. In re-measuring things, I realized that my couch will extend 3-4' into the dining room opening, leaving 4 feet of open space. Why is this significant? I've been trying to figure out how to get that hdmi cable across the 8' of open ceiling in that area without causing cosmetic damage when I need to remove it (I figure I'll eventually move somewhere else), or having it look butt ugly. I'm now thinking that the easiest way to run the cable is down the wall behind the projector and across the floor to the wall. I only have a 4' span where I need to drop something down to cover the cable. Its not ideal, but a lot simpler than running the cable along the ceiling until I get to the screen wall. It also means I don't need to worry about painting a cable to disguise it.  This should come close to matching my floor. I still need to figure out what to do for an equipment cabinet/shelf, but I can use my coffee table short term until I figure that out. I think I've got all the details sorted out now.
Fred
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You might want to wait until you've projected an image before you install the mount.
Keep in mind the height of the screen will be the limiting factor, if you don't want your center channel in the image.
Just saw your post from yesterday. That's why I want to mount onto a 'track'. I can attach the mount directly to start and have the flexibility to move the projector side to side depending on screen size. I can also add an extender if needed when I know what the exact screen size is. I did already measure based on the largest screen size. I have a foot above the screen and two feet below at 123" diagonal. That will allow me to just fit the top center (11.5") at the largest screen size. The bottom center will not be an issue.
Fred
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Don't forget the pictures
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Don't forget the pictures No worries. I'm still ordering stuff. and cleaing up so it will be a few weeks yet.
Fred
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Woot! Projetrory thingy shipped.
Fred
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Oh man. You have the power! Just wait! 
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Yes, I do. Well, I will when I get a longer power cord. Hey, the projector mount arrived today. I wonder when I'm going to get my shipping notice. I wasn't expecting to have stuff in for another week or so. I'd better get moving on the livingroom.
Fred
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Damn you brwsaw! A complete wall by the dining area is not practical, but a 4x8 melamine panel, some angle iron some concrete bolts, some trim... Could be done. I would have to split the panel to 2, 2x8 sheets to get it home.
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Lol.
It was just an idea. One I could see working.
Does this mean you are looking for a screen again?
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Oh oh, I have a doppelganger that doesn't know how to spell Fred. Hey, maybe he bought me a screen.
::looks out window for ups truck::
Fred
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One of the things I would really like to do with this change is to get away from the mancave look. I've been pondering how one might diguise a screen when not in use and I think I may have found my answer.  This one is 6' by 6'. Not quite enough in the horizontal direction, but damn this is much better than anything else I could find. Maybe two of these side by each. Just need to figure out how to mount them easily. They would fold up nicely to set aside when I'm watching movies though. The price on these things is not bad either, from just under $100 to around $200. I hope the shipping isn't too bad.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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This website is cool! I've been looking through all the different screens.
[url=http://www.orientalfurniture.com/roomdividers.html][/url]
Fred
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Hmm, or maybe some of these:  Where is Mr. interior decorator guy when you need him?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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I know you've probably thought about it already but just in case...you can get a pull down projection screen for about the same cost as 2 room dividers.
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Not tab tensioned, and not in Canada unfortunately. A budget fixed screen in the sizes I'm looking at would run me $300 to $400. Tab tensioned would be close to $800. Magical things happen to pricing once you cross the 49th parallel...
Two of those dividers is getting up there though which is why I'm still looking for alternatives. The printed bamboo blinds do look like a pretty good alternative.
I've done a cursory look into shipping to Canada, and I don't thing that is an alternative for such a large item.
Fred
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What screen size are you hoping for?
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Short answer is both I don't know since I've never had a projector and as big as I can get.
The number I come up with using various calculators is in the 100" diagonal range for a 9.5' viewing distance, but plenty of people posting on avs and other places like a larger screen at that distance (up to 120").
This is one of the reasons I decided to go with a painted screen. If, after a few months, I decide that I want a larger or smaller screen, it's relatively easy to do. Once I have some experience with a projector, I can use that to accurately figure out an appropriate screen size should I move or change my setup again.
All that said, I may need to cover an area as large as 65x111.
The divider I linked to is the closest I have come to a simple solution to tastefully cover such a large area.
I could just give up and go with a tab tensioned screen, but the best price I can find from a Canadian source is $850-$900. Sure, I can find the same thing in the US a lot cheaper, but for such a large item, by the time you add in shipping, duties and brokerage fees, I would be right back at that $850+ figure.
If you take off the $100 it will cost for paint and materials for the DIY screen, that leaves $750+ in wall coverings to get up to the cost of a tab tensioned screen
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Good news! I found that pencil my son lost in 2005... and, judging by their size, 2005 was a very good year for dustbunnies. There was something else... Oh yeah, the projector arrived. I did a temporary setup to make sure its working. That involved putting the AVR in the middle of the room so the existing HDMI cable would reach and shimming one side of the projector to more or less square the image up. I put LOTR on as a test. Damn, this projector looks good right out of the box! There is a bunch of work to do to get the image looking its best, but from what I saw in my test, night time viewing, even without treatments, will be pretty darned good.
Fred
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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I'll send you a list of my favourite wines.
Oh, does that mean I have to clean up?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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Some of us live around the corner from Fred...we are available to provide honest, if not impartial feedback...unless otherwise inebriated....
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axiomite
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axiomite
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You are more than welcome to drop by when it's all set up.
I'm hoping to have everything in place by the third week of December.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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axiomite
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I remember when my JVC showed up long before construction was done. I popped in a Spiderman movie, I think, that was near by. I put it in my laptop and projected on to a textured brownish-tan wall. I was blown away at how awesome it looked out of the box and on a horrible colored (and textured) wall. It wasn't until a year after my theater was done that I calibrated the projector. It made a BIG difference. As good as I thought that it was, it became that much better. Now, remember, if you connect up things in the theater "just to test" that you will have a hard time ever finishing it. Congrats on the arrival, and the finding of that pencil.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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axiomite
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Thanks Nick. I don't think I'll have a hard time finishing the room. When I say I'm impressed its with things like colour and black levels. Focus, sitting on a chair, shimed by carboard bits and projecting onto a rough semigloss wall with raw patches, focus leaves a little bit to be desired.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Photos?
(of the pencil. I've already seen photos of projectors)
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
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axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
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Right now, just close your eyes and envision the most ugly mancave pencil you've ever seen.
I'll start taking pictures when I mount the PJ (so it doesn't get in the way of the pencil).
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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I did another 1/2 hour of playing around with screen size today. I marked out from 100 to 120" diagonal sizes and played some more scenes from LOTR at different sizes. 116" is the largest I could get to with the current projector position (still waiting for my fancy HDMI cable).
That size at 9.5' is WOW big, but I can't quite take the whole image in without looking around on the screen. I'm guessing that this is an indication that the screen is too big?
Its not like I'm moving my head around, but it feels like my eyes get pulled around the image.
110" seems much better. I'll watch a whole movie at that size this weekend to see how that feels. I'll probably compare it to 100ish" which is at the THX recomended size.
I've also found another thing to put on my todo list, get rid of those 12 gage cables. They're just to damned big and awkward to work with.
Edit: A quick search suggests that for the one surround that will have about a 40' run, I'll need 16 gage wire. Is that correct?
Last edited by fredk; 12/03/14 12:11 AM.
Fred
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connoisseur
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I'd go 14 for cable.
Wrt screen size, watch the first battle scene in saving private ryan. If you feel motion sick, its too big. Good test.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Or put in Waterworld. If you feel sick, it's just a bad movie choice.
Or, try porn and see if it makes you feel ickier than usual.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I've been patiently waiting for you to come by and make one of your super useful posts Mark. I think I'll try Saving Private Ryan first though.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: May 2003
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Saving Private Ryan or Saving Rya....
oh never mind.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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axiomite
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But, what if Private Ryan didn't want to be saved. Oh, never mind.
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axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
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Then Its a Good Day to Die? See, that wasn't hard.
Ken, that one was over my head. I did hear the whoosh though.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I should have looked down when I heard the whoosh?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
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I always heard it as Shaving.
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I always heard it as Shaving. Sean Connery saying "Saving Ryan's Privates" would sound a lot like "Shaving Ryan'sh Privatesh." That is a WHOLE different movie. 
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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There was no Saving Ryan's Privates, at least not on bluray, so I rented Live Die Repeat instead. Tonight was my first full on dark experience and all I can say is THAT WAS FREAKING AWESOME!!!
White ceiling, white walls, crappy screen surface? Pfft. It was 110" of glorious action. This is like getting my M80 system all over again. I'm pretty sure 110" is going to work just fine for my viewing distance, but I'll try another flick tomorrow to make sure. Anyone have other vertigo inducing suggestions? P.S. I'm in trouble aren't I Nick...
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: May 2002
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axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: May 2002
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The latter part of this thread is truly bizarre.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
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axiomite
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axiomite
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You are doooooooomed....
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Anyone have other vertigo inducing suggestions? ? I'm happy that you're so happy!
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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connoisseur
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Cloverfield is another good one. Puke inducing! 
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Tonight's test movie was Malificent. 110" still seems like a good size. I may try one more before marking off the screen and doing wall prep.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Cloverfield is another good one. Puke inducing! I'll see if my rental place has it tomorrow.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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axiomite
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axiomite
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You still have a rental place nearby? I think there is only one left on all of PEI.
and yes, I realize that saying "all of PEI" is a bit paradoxical.
Last edited by Murph; 12/08/14 01:12 PM. Reason: realized the irony
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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connoisseur
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axiomite
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... and yes, I realize that saying "all of PEI" is a bit paradoxical... ... but not without precedent: http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/News/Local/...-all-of-P.E.I/1
Last edited by bridgman; 12/08/14 02:50 PM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Small independant. I actually prefer to rent from them vs download. I support a local company and they have a lot of indie film stuff to choose from. Unrelated, since I've started talking to my coworkers about setting up a projector, my boss and one of the guys I hang with at work have decided that sounds like a good idea.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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Small independant. I actually prefer to rent from them vs download. I support a local company and they have a lot of indie film stuff to choose from. Unrelated, since I've started talking to my coworkers about setting up a projector, my boss and one of the guys I hang with at work have decided that sounds like a good idea. Yeah thanks for that fred , now I am starting to think its a good idea. Seems my retirement fund is going to be coming up short. Must stop reading this thread.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Retirement is highly over-rated. My father tried 4 times. Projectors on the other hand... My HDMI cable finally came tonight. I was beginning to worry that it got caught up in the Christmas rush. I also picked up a longer power cable and VGA cable (for computer hookups should my son end up at my place this summer). Last night I cut the mounting rail to size, drilled holes in in it for the concrete bolts, marked out the ceiling and generally got ready to mount the projector. Tonight was almost a wash out. Every Home Depot has the 1 1/2" pipe I needed and will cut to size and thread. Except in Canada that is. Apparently us Canadians just aren't man enough and stop short a 1 1/4". I also still don't have the ceiling mount part as I can't find it locally... or a working drill as it turns out (drill press doesn't count). Sigh, more shopping. No worries though. I made supper and watched Passchendaele. Great movie, but no nausea inducing scenes. Still, tonight I felt the screen might be just a little big. I'll have to try a couple of movies at 106" to see how that feels. 110" is just so immersive though!
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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After being happily retired for over a decade, I have become quite good at it actually. I find that the best thing about retirement is that I now associate only with those people that I want to have around.
That alone is great for one's mental health...
TAM
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axiomite
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axiomite
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Who knew drilling a couple of holes could be so difficult. 3 days, two sets of bits and two drills later I have two [barely] acceptable holes and a crappy set of bits to return.
How can Tapcon throw in a bit that is so far our that a 5/32 bit is likely to produce a 3/16 hole?? How can a major drill manufacturer sell the same bit as part of a kit?? Well, OK, it probably created a 1/8 hole... more or less. It's a good thing those Tapcon concrete screws rated for 250lb don't have to hold anything close to their rated tolerance.
How could I be so stupid as to think that the tool specialists in the tool department in Home depot had a clue what they have on the shelf let alone what the best tool might be?????
/rant
Normally I research the crap out of stuff before I buy. I'm off to Home Depot now to return stuff.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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Dumb question
You used a hammer drill, right?
Hammer drill + hammer drill bit = tapcon success.
The bits in the tapcon screw pack are barely passable for grout even.
I feel your pain.
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I've used Tapcon and various similar-type replacements(Cobra, Duracut) all over the basement(subfloor, framework to hold insulation batts against wall) to great effect. Alas, I must admit I have a Rotary Hammer with SDS bits, not the straight shank bits you get with the screws/hammer drill.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Dumb question
You used a hammer drill, right?... Well, um, I've drilled holes in concrete (a wall) with a regular drill with success before using a nail to break up aggregate. When its two holes in 5 years, it's hard to justify a hammer drill. Doesn't work so well in a ceiling though. I'm currently contemplating returning the cheapo hammer drill I bought for one that at least has some metal parts in the gear box... If I can figure out at which price point that happens. Nobody seems to be aware of what's inside the drill. Edit: I actually had one guy tell me the new brushless motor drills have no gearbox. I find that very hard to believe.
Last edited by fredk; 12/14/14 05:29 PM.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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When we moved our hoist at work , the boss bought a 1/2" mastercraft combination hammer drill and it worked great and still does even after drilling 10 5/8 holes in the concrete. Chances are you wont need the hammer drill again but the one he got functions as a regular drill as well.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Hmm, I suppose a 1/2" drill should have a larger gear box. I went by Canadian Tire today and did not even see a shelf space for the 1/2" hammer drill, but according to their web app there are two in the very store I was at. Go figure.
Edit: are you talking cordless or corded?
Edit the edit: never mind, the one I currently have is 1/2"
Last edited by fredk; 12/14/14 07:05 PM.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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Rent one at home depot cheaply. I would not buy one for your purpose. They make a mess, so keep that in mind. Glasses are a good idea too.
A real hammer drill uses bits specific for them. Hilti and Bosch are reputable brands that are available for rent.
I own a bosch bulldog that is great for light duty drilling. I just finished pinning my framed walls to the slab with it and hex head 5/32 tapcons. Worked great.
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connoisseur
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The shank of the bit locks into the drill chuck. Looks like this. Old concrete is a bear sometimes. 
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axiomite
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axiomite
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That's a formidable tool you have there. A real hammer drill is probably overkill for a 5/32" hole 2" deep.
For what it's worth, the dumbass of the year award goes to me. Was talking to my father this afternoon and, of course, he has a proper hammer drill in his garage.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Now there is a deal you cant resist FWIW I mentioned the 1/2" only because we were making big holes with a fairly inexpensive brand that did the job competently. Is there even such think as a 3/8 hammer drill? Making holes that size should be very simple affair.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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axiomite
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axiomite
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That there is an SDS shank for a Rotary Hammer, not really the same as a "hammer drill" although they are used for similar work. The Rotary Hammer is far better/efficient than a hammer drill as they have a different mechanism to "chip" while drilling. You should be fine with a decent hammer drill though, Fred...they're much cheaper than rotary hammers too.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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axiomite
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axiomite
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...they're much cheaper than rotary hammers too. I'll say. That rotary hammer is in a whole other league. Looks like the Dewalt XRP is the lowest cost all metal gearbox hammer drill if I want to pony up.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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connoisseur
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The SDS bits will fit in the chuck of a 1/2" drill. A good option. Good tip is to tape the bit at required depth too. Overdrilling is a waste of time, battery and can lead to anchors not setting right if you go that route. You are close to mounting! How exciting!
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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You are close to mounting! How exciting! I'm pretty sure Fred would actually be disappointed if I didn't throm in a ::snicker-snicker:: here.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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connoisseur
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I've drilled holes in concrete (a wall) with a regular drill with success before using a nail to break up aggregate. When its two holes in 5 years, it's hard to justify a hammer drill.
Doesn't work so well in a ceiling though.
I have been installing an Engineered Hardwood floor in my basement. I put down some of the dimpled drywrap and covered it with OSB that I wanted to tapcon down so it didn't squeak. I had the same thought as you in I have drilled holes into the concrete floor before with my regular drill and it did work most times. Often though the tapcon would pull out or just not grip. So this time I went out and bought a Ridgid hammer drill (as I have a bunch of ridgid cordless tools and I could buy just the hammer drill by itself without the battery and charger for about $120) WOW. I could drill a hole in about 5 seconds, not 1 minute+ like before with a regular drill. Every hole I have drilled has worked with ZERO tapcon popout or screws that didn't grip. Right tool for the job and things suddenly became very easy.
Anthem: AVM60, Fosi DAC-Q5
Axiom: ADA1500, LFR1100 Actiive, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp, M5
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shareholder in the making
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I have a DeWalt that came as part of a kit a couple of years ago when I upgraded most of my cordless tools from Ryobi. Has worked really well for the 20-or-so holes I've done in concrete, in addition to the everyday stuff. Sounds like you're good with borrowing your Dads' though?
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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I'm not sure yet Mark. I'm going to talk to my Dad tonight. He's actually moving to an apartment next spring, so there are a lot of tools he will have to get rid of. I really want the riding mower, but I don't think I have space in the living room. . I don't think I want a full bore corded hammer dril in my apartment either though, so it depends what he has and will be getting rid of. The Dewalt I'm looking at actually looks like a very good deal. Its from their XRP line (complete metal drive train) and is actually a 3 speed. Seems to be less than all the other 2 speed 18v units with metal gearbox. It's overkill, but after my experiences with cheap drivers with plastic gears, I think I want all metal.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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axiomite
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Fred, if you are considering buying a hammer drill, check out IHL . They have some deals on the better brands of tools like Makita, Bosch ect. Sometimes the "better" deal isn't what it appears btw...NiCad vs LiOn, no comparison, the LiOn kills NiCad in every respect and is therefore priced accordingly...how many batteries are included and what size are they? 1.5Ah...smallest and cheapest...3.0Ah...4.0Ah much more expensive. Personally I'd take the Makita any day over the Dewalt, just my opinion of course. Also check TSC Stores .
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Personally I'd take the Makita any day over the Dewalt, just my opinion of course. Uh-oh! Them's fightin' words!
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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axiomite
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I ain't LiOn about it, or trying to be a NiCad.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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I walked right into that one Mark. Another big Makita fan here. Metal gears add weight if thats an issue. On sites there is every flavour of drill. If you spend the money generally you will do fine with any brand. Avoid brushless. Completely useless. Once taxed they cut out. If I want my drill to work hard I dont want it tapping out on me. 2 guys at work bought brushless drills as a promo and returned within a week. Lol. I will say the dewalt hammer function is better than makita. But damn they are bulky and heavy. Nicad sucks.
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axiomite
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The Dewalt I am looking at it LIon.
As far as Makita vs Dewalt, I prefer Chevy... oh, wait, Toyota.
I won't be taxing this thing. From past experience, I just don't trust plastic gears.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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why are you NiCad when your drilling, you'll get sand in your slitz doin that.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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Dad says, "don't waste your money, that Ryobi is just fine." ... and everyone knows that father knows best. I talked to him a bit and he has used several Ryobi cordless drills over the years and they've worked fine. I think I'll sit tight with what I have now. Thanks for trying to help me spend my money though.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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OK, back to some HT type stuff. I've mounted my rail and projector and am working on squaring up the image. What I ended up doing, is using a measuring tape taped to the wall at one end (only one person right now) and measured opposite ends of the screen in the vertical and horizontal direction until they are within 1/16". Quite a PITA even with a decent mount. I can see how lens shift is such a desirable feature.
Now that I have the screen square, I know how much offset the projector has in its default position and I can go ahead and get a pipe an ceiling mount that add 11" to the drop. From there I can use lens shift to adjust in the vertical direction, but I've got to get the vertical bang on. I'll probably have to redo the image squaring as well.
So, how do you guys go about getting the projector square to the screen?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Line laser shooting across ceiling meeting your center mark on wall. We use these for centering potlights in long corridors. Works like a charm. I also use it for speaker setup... and floor flex testing, hanging tvs. What a nerd, eh?
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axiomite
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Too simple. I seem to have a hard time with simple these days.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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A laser level? Oh goodie. More toys to buy Damn, more tools I have to buy to get the job done right.
::runs to hardware store::
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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You'll see how far out of square the walls are...
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I want a projector, now, too. Dammit, Fred.
Dammit dammit dammit.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Tom, this is not a change from your usual status.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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axiomite
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You just want an excuse to buy the hammer drill and the laser level.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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OK, pictures for Mark. Mounting track and mount:  Projector temporarily mounted:  I know, I know, "Fred you gotta pull out that level and straighten out the picture." Fancy leveling jig:  The level was on sale at Canadian Tire for $50. I like that it has both a clamp and a tripod mount. You can set this thing up just about anywhere.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Wow! Great deal. And great job so far. If your pj has a built in test screen pattern it is slick for squaring up a picture. The epson one looks like a giant reticule. I just shoot the cross line laser at center width and height of the screen. Then shift the image center to meet the laser accordingly. Zoom to fit. Done. Yeah for pics!
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Can I lick your ceiling? It looks like vanilla frosting.
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axiomite
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So it does. Try licking your screen. What do you taste?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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The last piece of the hardware is in place. Picked up 2 1.5" schedule 40 white pvc fittings, a short section of pipe and a 1.5" floor flange. Perfect.
I need to get some white paint for the flange now so it blends in a little.
I've got tomorrow off, so I can move on to masking the wall and painting.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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axiomite
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I've already gotten my money's worth out of my laser level. I spent the last 1.5 hours tweaking until I've got both sides parallel and the top and bottom within 2 mm.
Now I have to undo all that because I messed up. I thought I had the projector close enough to square, but now the image is lower than It was before and I messed up by not checking the lense shift, which was adjusted all the way up. I need to hack 4" off the tube.
I may also put a larger section of pipe around the support column to make it look like one tube instead of a pipe with two connectors.
I talked to the guys in the paint section of the hardware while I was there tonight and they suggested what I was thinking to make sanding easier. Just do a light coat with some drywall mud first and then all I need is a light sanding. That's way less work than trying to sand down years of rough paint.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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That doesn't sound right. You double checked, your PJ is mounted upside down, did you try the opposite control?
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axiomite
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There's only one control. Turn one way and its up, the other, down.
So the extension has been trimmed, painted and put back up and the projector is all squared up.
I now understand why people love lens shift. Every time I had to move the whole rig horizontally on the track, I had to tweak everything again.
Next up is the screen wall.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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What kind of paint did you find? Sorry if I missed it.
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It is be a Sherwin Williams grey Apparently its a very neutral grey.
Right now I'm sanding away with some 100 grit paper. Man, this wall is rough. Even with the 100 grit, I'm still going to do a light fill with mud to fill in the craters. Did I call it dimpling? Silly me.
Edit: Screen grey is the name of the tint. I'll probably go with the pro classic paint.
Last edited by fredk; 12/21/14 02:57 AM.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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More progress. I've mudded the wall and done a rough sanding. The mud has done a good job of filling in the roughness. I'm glad I got the low dust mud. The room would be a mess otherwise.
The next step is to do a final sanding with a finer grit and tape for painting.
I got my paint and related supplies today as well. The salesperson knew exactly what paint I wanted as soon as I mentioned it was for a projector screen.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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A while back I read a post by a guy who does painted walls for projection exclusively, his level of perfection came through in his posts. A point he made was that if its not perfect you'll see it and to make sure you tough it out, wait until it is, before sitting back to enjoy the show.
Are you going to mask the screen?
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axiomite
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I've already watched several movies on the raw wall and enjoyed them so I'm not worried about perfection. If I was, I would go buy a sprayer now rather than try a rolled screen first.
Definately plan to mask. I'll use 3" wide trim covered in velvet of some sort.
I want to get the screen painted and do some test drives again before tackling the masking. The first step will be the basic 16:9 mask. From there I'll explore something I can add on for 2.39:1.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Mario cart and Smash Bros bigger than life! What's that you say Nick? Quit foolin around and finish the damned screen? The kids give two thumbs up to 110".
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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connoisseur
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Kirby or picachu!
We played for 2 days straight a few years ago on our screen. We were pretty much cured of it after that! Glad you are having a blast with your new toy.
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Kids got a Wii U (free) from points.
It came with Smash Bros and Mario land. We added Mario cart 8, Batman lego 3 and sonic.
It was a good day.
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Mario cart and Smash Bros bigger than life! What's that you say Nick? Quit foolin around and finish the damned screen? The kids give two thumbs up to 110". SMH.... You were warned, LOL.... Awesome that you are enjoying it though.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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I've finally got the first coat of primer on. I'm not entirely happy with how smooth the wall is, or more correctly, isn't. I struggled to get the mud spread evenly over the wall and by the time I had it sanded flat, some areas were down to the paint again. The sandpaper seems to have taken up more of the mud than paint, so there is shallow pitting. I need to do two coats of primer because the wall is down to a darker layer of paint in some places, so I'm hoping that a light sanding of the first primer coat plus the second primer coat will smooth things out more.  And here's one for the soup can crowd. Haven't seen one of these in a while.  Oh, hey CV, Gator wants to know when the pit party is.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Well, that didn't work. The good news is that the primer coat should give better adhesion for the next try at skim coating.
Having spent some time on the internets this morning watching videos on skim coating I was on the right track, but a little short on technique.
Moar mud, better tool = skim coat try two...
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Watching drywall mud dry is much more fun than paint. It makes a damned good screen too. It is, however a real pita to get on in a thin even coat. I probably have a third coat to do tomorrow to fill in the last of the low spots before sanding again.
This wall is going to look strange when I move out...
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Oh man, the fine dust just kills me! Gets everywhere.... That M80 is the biggest mouse pad I've ever seen.
Last edited by Serenity_Now; 12/30/14 05:45 PM.
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axiomite
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Watching drywall mud dry is much more fun than paint. It makes a damned good screen too. It is, however a real pita to get on in a thin even coat. I probably have a third coat to do tomorrow to fill in the last of the low spots before sanding again.
This wall is going to look strange when I move out... Mudding and sanding is an art; more so than almost any other home building process IMO. I've found that even reading about and testing techniques that i can't seem to get a smooth surface that won't stick out from the background board, yet my wife can feather in the edges to make a patch unnoticeable. Obviously she's more artistic with clay. I'm more like Patrick Swayze in Ghost where he comes in behind Demi Moore and utterly ruins the clay pot. Ya, that's who i'm like....Patrick Swayze.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
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That M80 is the biggest mouse pad I've ever seen. Perfect for the new "standing office" format that seems to be gaining popularity at my work, at least.
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I've finally got the first coat of primer on. I'm not entirely happy with how smooth the wall is, or more correctly, isn't. I struggled to get the mud spread evenly over the wall and by the time I had it sanded flat, some areas were down to the paint again. The sandpaper seems to have taken up more of the mud than paint, so there is shallow pitting. I need to do two coats of primer because the wall is down to a darker layer of paint in some places, so I'm hoping that a light sanding of the first primer coat plus the second primer coat will smooth things out more. Fred, do what they do in the auto finishing industry; block sand, start @ 13 min... the area. You'll need a dead flat/straight board (a hand rail works well) just under the length of your screen area and a roll of ~2" wide sand paper - at most auto body supply stores you can get PSA backed sand paper in a variety of grits. Thinner is better for the mud applications - you can get get quick setting mud, only mix what you need. Once a layer is dry you can spray a guide coat of black sandable primer - just enough to put a light mist on the area - think: one dot every 1/8-1/4". Let dry and start sanding, in an X pattern with your sand paper covered long block. As you hit the high points, you'll see white and the low areas will stay black. Prep a new batch of mud and fill the low spots (still showing black), and repeat the guide coat long board sanding process. You will eventually end up with a dead flat, all white area. (this is why custom paint jobs are $8k plus - its all labor.
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axiomite
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Tempting.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Mudding and sanding is an art...
I knew that going in. I've done small bits of mudding before and I've watches pros tape and mud a room in less than 15 minutes. So, Patrick. Can I come party at your place and watch movies when I get sick of mucking with mud?
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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... Fred, do what they do in the auto finishing industry; block sand, start @ 13 min... the area. You'll need a dead flat/straight board (a hand rail works well) just under the length of your screen area and a roll of ~2" wide sand paper... You may just be on to something. I happen to have a 4' level. It's rather narrow, but would be enough to identify high spots I can sand down with a regular block. That might just work if I'm careful. Thanks!
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Level, level.
Level, level, level.
Level?
Noooooooooooooooo!
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
Level, level.
Level, level, level.
Level?
Noooooooooooooooo! I'm guessing you're talking about Candy Crush Saga.
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I wish. Scott. That turned out to be a very good suggestion, even if I havn't used it yet. It turns out a 4' level is all I've needed so far. The paint from the level comes off just enough to mark all the high spots nicely. Most of the screen is pretty good. The exception is a very high spot center left that I sanded right back to the concrete block in one spot (between 1/8" and 3/16" high. It took a good 3 hours of sanding and checking the level using 50 grit paper to get it as close to flat as I can. I'm still filling in the hollow above it. The worst of it was probably 1/4" low. I figure that these two spots were enough to noticeably affect focus, so I have no choice but to fix them. Those mudders sure know how to hide an uneven spot in the wall.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593 Likes: 1 |
Holy cow you have patience. Good on ya. That is a messy and tedious job.
Are you going to paint a matte black border around your screen area after?
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Holy cow you have patience. Good on ya. That is a messy and tedious job.
Are you going to paint a matte black border around your screen area after? Once you're in, you're in... For a border, I figure there are two ways to do this: use adhesive backed velvet tape, or make a border out of 3" molding. Given how much time this last stage has taken, I might just opt for the simpler solution, particularly since I plan to cover the wall with something decorative when the screen is not in use. Originally I was worried about extra work if/when I move, but I'll have a bit or work with the rest of the wall to blend it in anyway, so a little extra adhesive to remove or cover is not a big deal.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333 |
I wish. Scott. That turned out to be a very good suggestion, even if I havn't used it yet. It turns out a 4' level is all I've needed so far. The paint from the level comes off just enough to mark all the high spots nicely. It took a good 3 hours of sanding and checking the level using 50 grit paper to get it as close to flat as I can. I'm still filling in the hollow above it. Whatever is working for you! Glad you found a way to identify highs and lows across a large area.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
I am reminded a public school teacher who posed to us the question: "If you take a number and divide it in half, do you ever get to 0."
I am also reminded of my kids favourite traveling phrase: "Are we there yet?"
Sigh.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333 |
I feel your pain. I put almost 100 hours in block sanding a '78 El Camino, though most of it was a steep learning curve for how much NOT to sand off before needing to reprime and (almost) start over. But the end result was worth it.
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Lets hope I don't hit that 100 hour mark, but you are exactly right about learning what not to do.
At least I'm making progress. 70% of the screen is where I want it to be. Its that last bit of leveling out that seems to take the most effort.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
I feel your pain. I put almost 100 hours in block sanding a '78 El Camino,... Speaking of El Caminos, I saw on on a trailer on the way back from Wine tasting yesterday. It looked to be in really good shape, though I had no way of knowing if it was rebuilt or original. As a further side note, you know you're getting old when the inbred bastard child of the automotive world of your youth becomes a classic. Yes, I'm waiting for plaster to dry. Again.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
So, while I'm waiting, here's how I would approach my wall now: 1. Use a level or other long straight object to mark all the high and low spots relative to each other. Whats high in one direction may not be in another. Its a three dimensional puzzle and there may be a whole section of wall to be sanded down to get close to level quickly. 2. Take down the extreme high spots as much as possible using the roughest grit paper possible. A grinder would be tempting, but probably not controllable. 3. Sand and TSP the screen area to prep for plaster adhesion. 4. Do the level exercise again and work on any high spots I can with 50 or 80 grit paper. 5. fill in the extreme low spots with a dryer than normal mix of mud (so you don't have to wait forever for the damned stuff to dry). For the really deep dips, it might actually be better to use a compound designed for plaster and lath walls that is meant to be put on in thick coats. 6. Measure, sand and fill where needed again. 7. NOW start the skim coat process. I suspect that the first six steps could be done in a two days. From there, skim coating would be a far simpler process.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Things you can do with a laser level, while waiting for plaster to dry, to be really, really obsessive and drive yourself crazy... This idea came to me while falling asleep last night. My whole wall is out of level by 4mm from the top to the bottom of the screen. Its surprisingly uniform over the length of the screen. I've found whole new low areas with the laser level with a little fiddling. They are only about 1mm low, but if you want to be really obsessive... I just love to get my money's worth out of the toys tools I buy.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Chipity, chip, chip...
Hmm, I've got quite the ledge going on at the top left of the screen.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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OP
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Painty, paint, paint, paint.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Fred's (hopefully) excellent HT adventure
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422 |
Still glad that you are just "painting" your screen or do you wish that you went with a regular screen? Cost wise I have about $350 (probably less) in my 138" Seymour AT screen. $250 of that was the screen material, which of course a non-AT screen would be a lot cheaper, and the other $100 was wood for the frame, brackets, staples, some paint for the frame... My frame was assembled in about 4 hours from start of the first cut of wood, to being hung on the wall.
Just wondering where the painted screen falls for price and effort?
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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