Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Speaker setup

For what it's worth, I agree that an HT system brings even more challenges, since it's much more common to have multiple listening positions.

On the other hand you also have multiple speakers and even going from 2.0 to 3.0 makes a huge difference in the size of the sweet spot, taking it from maybe one foot wide to several feet wide.

I haven't tried treating an HT room yet -- that's something for next year -- but my guess is that (a) figuring out through experimentation what to do next is going to be even harder than it is for a stereo system, and (b) reaching "good enough" will be quicker and easier, so hopefully it will all balance out.

For the HT area I'm planning to hit the first reflection points, add some kind of bass trapping either at the sides or the roof peak, replace the Ikea bookshelf with a dedicated projector mount, and call it a day. Oh yeah, and maybe finally build a frame around my formica screen.

The room is basically the union of two square boxes cut in half by a solid reflective floor (probably what Mark's room looks like after a bottle of good whiskey) so I'm not aiming for "perfect".





The second picture needs one of those "Caution, HT equipment is not to scale" warning signs.

When it happened I knew.
I was sitting there, eyes closed, 100 %in the moment.
The soundstage literally extended beyond/outside the boundaries of the room and the musician began to move across the stage towards me (left to right). It was the coolest moment I've ever experienced. It was so real, I felt like I wasn't alone in the room. I had to open my eyes. It was incredible.
In my mind there was a form, I'd use a sun spot as an analogy (look at the sun, look away) but it was dark like a storm cloud not bright like a light.

I've had a similar experience since but never like that.

During the last Axiom anniversary celebration we had a chance to do some blind listening between two sets of speakers that turned out to be the M3 and a B&W Diamond bookshelf. It was a 'holly crap!' moment as the M3 had an incredible soundstage compared to the B&Ws. It was a real ear opener.

I have no idea how long it took the folks at Axiom to set things up, but I imagine it followed a similar process to what you are doing.

Bottom line, if you set your room up right, there is a big payoff.

I've never experienced anything close to this. The most I have noted is the center channel seeming to be on when listening in stereo only.

Bridgman, that is a superbly unique space. I was going to recommend you look at what other attic users employed, but you are on terra incognita I think. Cool.

Brwsaw, you are in the 1% who finally know exactly how it feels (not sounds) when everything falls into place. When you can almost reach out and touch it or feel it moving while you stay put. Very cool and enviable story.

Mark, a good way to get started is to listen to "lively sounding" recordings with some reverb. A good one is Badfish by Sublime. There are so many cool things going on in the mix. From the beginning where you can feel like you are in the bar, or the siren swooping forward and around the room and then the huge and enveloping guitar solo. Another is Steven Page floating around in Brian Wilson.

When tracks not employing these obvious mixing/phasing tricks start to take shapes and forms in the room you are getting there. It can get uncanny.

I actually rated the B&W higher. I found the biggest difference was the heavier bass with the M3 and after a few song flips i stated to find it distracting (i.e. less accurate sounding).

I rated the B&W slightly higher as well. For me it was the female vocals, BUT the soundstage of the M3 was outstanding and highlighted for me what I am missing in my room.

I noticed that Peter plumbed the couch cushion such that anyone sitting down would be tilted 20 degrees off angle to the left.
Had to fix that before i started the listening test.

What's really nice is when it finally comes together in a home theater to the point where there are no speakers, no hot spotting, smooth bass, believable weapons fire...when a ricochet travels through the room, I mean literally flies past, its a beautiful thing.

This is one of the reasons I tend to start over so frequently. Every time I wreck a good thing I find that little nugget of bliss. Those mere seconds in a 2 hour film make it all worth it.

I'm counting the days until I tear it apart again, I really want the image and the sound to meld a bit better. I've had both before, it didn't sound as good back then so this should be a real treat.
I should be starting in a few days.

Found the bass dip. Ran per channel log chirps (full band sweep) and found the left channel is the culprit. Its close proximity to a sofa about 1.5ft outside of it is causing the issue I think. It is only noticable with a measurement though.

My room RT60 time is between 0.5 and 0.3 seconds depending on octave. Generally, the low frequencies had a shorter decay time.

The measurement delay time from L/R channel was 12.01ms and 12.04ms respectively at peak impulse. Pretty darn close. This is directly related to distance from the mlp.

I have come to the conclusion that even "high end" reviews often dont take the care to do all demonsrated in this thread. My takeaway from this entire process is as follows:

Speaker position is incredibly dynamic. As Matt pointed out, all variables are interwoven.
System symmetry is imperative for the full performance of imaging and transparency.
Spaciousness and bass response are somehow interrelated. Distance from room boundaries are directly involved.
Acoustical measuring tools speed the process up, but reveal issues that arent neccessarily real issues.

My recommendations are: (nothing new here)

Experiment with width first from room center line (equadistant from side walls.) No toe in.
Experiment with distance from rear wall behind speakers after width is tentatively set. No toe in.
Once width and back wall distance are set try toeing speakers in. Go slowly and be as exact as possible. A difference of 1/4" at the speaker is several inches where you sit.

Match distances between speakers and boundaries as closely as possible. Make sure your mlp is exactly centered in room. This ensures refections arriving are at least in time with one another. Incredible difference in drum synergy.

Doing these things will result in a larger sweet spot. Better resolution of fine detail. Improved spaciousness. Better bass response. Improved transparency and imaging. Better envelopment.

If you just plonked your speakers down, it will likely sound like a several thousand $ upgrade to you. But likely for most of us, steps like this are the leap from good to great. Or from great to hoping for poor weather.