Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Furnace Failure - Arrrgh

Code here just changed. Most homes I work with with are now required to have fans pushing stale air out AND fans pushing fresh air in, separate of the interal requirement of the hi-efficiency units/combustion/needs.

So, in the winter we now have to blow cold air IN & blow warm OUT?? How efficient is that? Is the internal house air that we have been living in over the past half century, that bad that we have to resort to this?

Over regulation again I would say!!

My 1992 furnace has a cold air intake from outside that is routed into the cold air ducting at the furnace. I hope that I don't have to retrofit my house for this nonsense...

TAM

Really tight homes have HRV units (heat recovery ventilator). Well, they 'used' to be called HRV, now they are calling them ERV's (energy recovery ventilator). They are required in some homes, or you could quite possibly die in your sleep. I have one in my home that I installed when I built it in 99. I was able to get some points for installing one, which applied to a credit reduction program for energy efficient homes (4 star, 5 star, 5 star +).

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/commer...ery-Ventilators

My 22 year old home is not really 'tight'. On the west coast, it is not desirable due to the prolonged wet winters that we have here - mold growth can be problematic. None apparent in my house so it must be working OK as it is.

Speaking of excessive regulations. BC upgraded its drinking water standards recently. Despite the fact that our drinking water in the Comox Valley is some of the finest in the world & plentiful, we have been on a 'Boil Water Advisory' for a month now because of 'turbidity' issues. CYA at work IMO. It is not the first time in the past century that it has rained hard here & caused slight turbidity - but now the panic is on. It is a complete PITA for restaurant & pubs to keep up this nonsense.

Rest assured, we are not boiling our drinking water in our house & we are still upright. Interestingly, there are reports of people getting sick from just brushing their teeth with tap water. Ya, right...

TAM

As always, late to the party..... LOL. Everyone here seems to be on track, but I do have one comment on the cost of different fuels, and investing in a heat pump to save money.

An air-to-air heat pump runs totally on electricity, and can effectively extract heat out of the air down to ~ minus 12 deg C. (10 deg F) This means you still need a "backup" source of heat when the temperatures dip below that.

The real key is the cost of electricity compared to Natural Gas, Propane, or Fuel Oil.

At current electrical rates in Ontario, $1.00 into a heat pump will buy you ~40,000 btu's of heat. Here are the others:

Electric furnace or baseboard heaters - 17,000 btu's per $1.00
Natural Gas (Hi-Eff) - 75,000 btu's per $1.00
Propane (Hi-Eff) - 41,000 btu's per $1.00
Fuel Oil - 31,000 btu's per $1.00
GeoThermal - 73,000 btu's per $1.00
Pellet - 40,000 btu's per $1.00

Again, these are all based on current rates here in Eastern Ontario. YMMV. I can provide the formula's for anyone who would like to calculate based on rates in their region.

As far as I know the island doesn't require the extra (2nd) fan.
They have changed the structural considerations (earthquake bracing, structural bracing etc.) a few times in the last year and rain water/air barrier considerations behind ALL siding types recently. Both additional required considerations in all new construction. That's my understanding anyway.
I'm 12hrs North, right on a division that changes requirements from "what they should have been all along" to "ok, who's paying for that" (HRV, triple pane loe E argon windows, R69 in the ceiling, 5/8" rain screen, etc.).

Thanks for the explanations guys.

My bet is that natural gas prices will continue to be low for the next decade or so. Furthermore, we all know out here that BC electricity rates are climbing dramatically:

BC Hydro's proposed rate increase:

Year 1: 9 per cent (April 01, 2015)
Year 2: 6 per cent
Year 3: 4 per cent
Year 4: 3.5 per cent
Year 5: 3 per cent
Note: Each year's increase is a percentage of the previous year's rates. So, this compounds to +28% increase by 2019.

Therefore, I think that I'm staying with a HE Natural Gas Furnace & a HE Central Air Unit. I don't think that there is any advantage of a Heat Pump to me...

TAM

Hey Shawn. By geothermal, do you mean a heat pump that extracts from the ground or are you talking geothermal a la Iceland (hotsprings)?

Shawn:

Not to put you on the spot, but, do you have any experience/opinions with reliability/longevity of certain brands?

Unfortunately, there are so many horror stories by users on the net with even the supposedly 'top end' brands. The impression I get is that the old gear - that is replaced by these efficient but complex, sophisticated, computer controlled systems - worked far more reliably over their life. I think that I'm going to keep it as simple as possible at perhaps some penalty to overall system efficiency.

Keeping in mind that we live in a small market on Vancouver Island, my (probable) installer recommends Trane first then Carrier.

Awaiting our estimate tomorrow with some trepidation...

Thanks

TAM

Tam. That seems to be the sad reality of consumer goods these days: lots of fancy 'features', not so much reliability. After 30 years of chasing the lowest price, North American consumers are reaping what they have sown...