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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409381 01/11/15 08:22 PM
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Well said fred.

After reading up on this & automotive issues since I recently bought a new Highlander, it seems that designers/manufacturers in many consumer product fields are including all of this 'aircraft type' technology without installing 'aircraft grade' parts. A mediocre grade sensor suddenly failing in a vehicle can cause a cascading effect (multiple dash warning lights) in the ECM system that suddenly puts the car into 'Limp Mode'. Not good on a morning commute in heavy, high speed freeway traffic if your car decides that it will only go 30 MPH. It is happening in far too many cases in virtually all brands.

That is why for the first time in my life that I bought a 7 year extended warranty for the Highlander. For example, the in-dash info screen unit is ~$7000 part that is covered for only 3 years. Wise decision? We'll see I guess.

As for furnace system reliability, thankfully we live in a benign climate where we won't freeze to death if it fails. Our gas fireplace, fans & space heaters are doing a good job keeping us comfortable; however, if we lived on the prairies where it has been below -20C for the last while, it would be a very different story...

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/11/15 08:29 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409382 01/11/15 08:28 PM
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Fred: Yes. Unfortunately, there are no hot springs here. frown

TAM:
Just like politics and religion, you will get some very strong opinions on what brands people feel are "the best". And you are correct - unfortunately even top rated brands have their problems. Personally, I have had great success with Carrier & Bryant. (They are the same equipment) Trane seems to have fewer dealers and a much lower market share here in Ontario, so I don't have as much experience with them.

Having said all that, a 2012 Consumer Reports article stated that between the top 10 selling brands, there was less than a 10% difference in reliability. I'm not a big CR fan, but there is no reason to doubt this stat.

In reality, the installing dealer you choose will have a far greater impact on your overall satisfaction, than the equipment choice. I would spend far more time researching the company than the equipment. Talk to friends and neighbours. Check the BBB. Have they been involved in any lawsuits? Visit their shop. Find out which crew is being sent out to your job. How much experience do they have? How long have they been with the company? What licences do they carry? Are both qualified?

Also in Ontario, we have the TSSA. (Technical Safety Standards Association) On their website, you can check to see if the company has been charged with any safety violations. I'm not sure you have anything like this in BC, but it might be worth looking into. Example here.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
Shawn


Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409383 01/11/15 08:44 PM
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Thanks Shawn:

My neighbour across the street is a high-end contractor (moved from ON) who we have employed to do a bunch of ongoing renos in our house. He is more than trustworthy & his work is top tier with no shortcuts allowed - everything is done to code & he uses only qualified tradesmen to do plumbing, electrics, etc.

He has several local firms that he employs on his jobs so he knows which ones are good or not. He recommended this particular firm that I've been dealing with so I'm comfortable with them; however, I've not made any commitment as yet.

Interestingly, in his own newly renoed home, he had a high end Carrier Heat Pump & Electric Furnace System installed. The fan motor died in the second year. Contrast that to my 20 year old Lennox AC (looks like a POS now because of our salt air) is still running trouble free, although I'm sure that it is now on borrowed time...

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/11/15 08:45 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
real80sman #409385 01/11/15 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: real80sman
Fred: Yes. Unfortunately, there are no hot springs here. frown

Agree with you on the frowny-face for no hot springs. I loved going up to the hot springs in Banff for a soak several times a month over the winter.

I was not expecting that high an efficiency for a heat exchanger, so that's cool to know.


Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409386 01/11/15 11:48 PM
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Tam, that referral is gold - you are 3/4 of the way there. Just a matter of nailing the down the brand & specific models now. My vote would be for a 2 Stage Gas Valve with the DC Variable Speed Blower motor (ECM).

Now I may get some disagreement on this, but on the A/C side, I feel you don't need anything higher than 14 to 15 SEER efficiency. In Canada our electricity is relatively cheap, and our cooling hours are low.


Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409388 01/11/15 11:52 PM
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Was that the fan motor inside or outside that failed? Not a common failure, regardless. The great thing is that every manufacturer is giving a 10 year parts warranty nowadays.


Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409392 01/12/15 12:44 AM
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I believe that it was on the outside unit; however, I'll have to check with him & get back to you...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409393 01/12/15 01:17 AM
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Basically everything A/C, furnace related is owned by the Carrier corp.





I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409407 01/12/15 06:28 PM
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I check with my neighbour - it was the fan motor in the main heat pump unit outside. It just quit.

I was off on the age - it was 5-6 years old.

The parts warranties are indeed generous - mostly 10 to 12 years; however, there is the PITA factor when they fail & the cost of the service calls that can really add up over time.

My 22 year old Lennox WhisperHeat Gas Furnace needed only one part - the electric ignitor box about 8 years ago - over its life...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409580 01/18/15 07:56 PM
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Well, we have been living without a furnace for over 2 weeks because we haven't made a decision on 'system type' nor 'brand' yet. We have at least 5 neighbours & friends that have gone the 'heat pump/electric heat in the air handler' only route. All are very pleased, although with the predicted hydro rate increases, they may not be in the future.

Considering our benign climate here, with all auxiliary heat sources off overnight, the coldest the house gets is 17C overnight even though the OAT always gets down to close to freezing. We have had only 2 days of sunshine during that period for 'solar heating' through the large expanse of windows. I would surmise that the past 2 weeks have been very typical of the climate here in January, although we haven't had any blasts of really cold Arctic air that typically might total a week every year.

We are really quite comfortable - 20/21C in the day & 17C at night - without a central heating system. That really surprises us & we are kinda wondering why we need to spend 10 - 15000 dollars on an all singing all dancing system.

We have a couple of quotes - all from longtime, reputable installers here on high efficiency higher end gear:

Trane:

* Gas Furnace (80K BTU, 95%) + Heat Pump (SEER 16) - $10,400

* Gas Furnace + 2.5T Air Conditioner (SEER 16) - $9600

Lennox through CostCo - Cash Cards of $100 per $1000 spent (up to $1500) not included in the quotes below:

* Gas Furnace (90K BTU, 96%) + Heat Pump (SEER 18) - $12,400

* Gas Furnace + 3.5T Air Conditioner (SEER 18) - $11,800

* 3.5T Heat Pump (SEER 18) + 20 kWh Electric Aux Heat - $11,600

* Highest end Lennox System Furnace - $14,670(AC) to $15,600(HP)

All + GST of course.

We'll get a Carrier quote tomorrow, because since we aren't freezing to death, we have some time.

Any comments?

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/18/15 07:58 PM.
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