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Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
#409324 01/08/15 09:27 PM
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Well, after 20+ years of stellar service, my forced-air natural gas furnace will not deliver gas to the combustion chamber. It cost me $105 to diagnose that the gas valve is now defunct, sniff.

Dilemma - pay another ~$700 to fix it with the probability that the heat ex-changer will fail within the next year or so, or, go with a whole new unit. Prudence tells me that new is the answer.

Along with replacing the gas furnace (gas is getting cheaper here) I also need to replace our central AC unit as well, although electricity is increasing in price here. So I guess that a heat pump is probably the best way to go. Whatever way I choose, it will cost as bundle I'm afraid.

My gas fireplace still works & the house seemed to maintain 16C throughout the night with an outside temp of 2C even with all heating off. Thankfully, we aren't living where there is a real cold winter going on right now...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409327 01/09/15 12:34 AM
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Oh, no!

Paging Shawn (real80sman). I don't know if things have changed, but he emphatically advised me to get Carrier a few years ago. I have instead patched my old unit together and decided to forego A/C because, well, I blame my kids.

Good luck, friend.


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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409331 01/09/15 06:44 AM
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Well, the Heating Rep came for a walk around today & will provide an estimate tomorrow. They like 'Trane' but are going to cost out 'Carrier' as well as they carry both brands as well as some others.

Interestingly, he recommended that in our mostly balmy climate that our present set up of Forced Air Natural Gas Furnace + Central AC would still be a great choice with modern components. The advantages of the more costly & complex Heat Pump + Gas Furnace would probably not be realized financially in this climate & given that fact that electricity rates are going to rise substantially in the next decade. We need to continue to fill the provincial government coffers & to pay for a new proposed mega dam project up north in BC.

I was most impressed with him not trying to up-sell & giving me some really good, pragmatic advice...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409333 01/09/15 02:21 PM
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I am starting to get concerned about these same two (A/C and heat) units in our house. They work well today, but they are about 17 years old and I know that time is just ticking away on them before they implode, turn into a black hole, and suck up all of my (non-existent) money.

Good luck with the price quotes and install.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409334 01/09/15 03:12 PM
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A few years ago, we replaced our system (gas-fired boiler) that had been there since 1959! Any (older) plumber that came in said " I've heard of these! They were the best money could buy in the 50s and 60s!".

I can't imagine we'll get as much life out of the one we replaced it with! :sigh:


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409335 01/09/15 04:38 PM
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We had to train on the carrier units in school. They are very well regarded and farily easy to troubleshoot.

The cost\savings benefit you will receive from going from a Standard to a High Efficiency Natural Gas setup will pay for itself in the first few years. You will be technically making money after that compared to your previous situation. It did you a long term favor by finally retiring. smile

FWIW, supplied and installed would run you around $3K for a well featured unit (dual stage at least) back in Calgary. Get several quotes if you can. Good Luck! Stay warm!

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409336 01/09/15 05:28 PM
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Odd furnace question. Our furnace room in our home built in 1998 has a fresh air supply that comes from outside. Does that mean that this is NOT a high efficiency unit? I was thinking that was the case, but maybe someone here knows.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409337 01/09/15 05:57 PM
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It needs to get combustion air from someplace. Most of the newer homes are built to be tight, so the combustion air source needs to come from outside the house. Some units will have a type of heat exchange unit that tempers the outside air with the exhaust, but that comes at a price; the exhaust gets cooled too much, so you get condensate / acid / sulphar build up in the flue. The type of fuel burnt also plays into this. Gas and/or propain exhaust is generally much cooler, with a much lower sulpher content.

Bummer you need to replace your furnace TAM. When it rains, it pours… A couple weeks ago, I decided to change out an instant hot water dispenser I installed about ten years ago. Had to remove the garbage disposal unit to get to it. After I installed the new dispenser ($350), and then the disposal unit, the friggin disposal unit developed an internal leak. $200 later, the new disposal unit was installed, but then the new hot water dispenser stopped working. Called the warranty / service line… They have to have one of their authorized installers check it out…. He finally shows up, “yep, the unit is bad and needs to be replaced”…. Four weeks later, no progress. And, three weeks ago, the dishwasher crappped out on me…. $900 later, a new Bosch was running. Now I’m just wondering what the hell else is going to crap out on me…..

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409338 01/09/15 06:05 PM
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What you are describing sounds like a make up air interlock. Your house was probably built just after code required furnaces to bring fresh air in because houses are so air tight now. This helps with air pressure issues.

The easiest way to tell if you have a standard eff. furnace is the exhaust line is steel and exhausts out the roofline. You will have a chimney chase that may also be tied into the hot water heating system.

New construction Mid/high eff units exhaust through tubing out tbe side of the house typically. The exhaust is warm, but not hot. Much better heat exchange process.

Mid is no longer allowed to be sold in residential.

At 1998 you are mid most likely. (99% likleyhood.)

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409350 01/10/15 12:33 AM
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There must be something in 'The Air' or 'The Force' or whatever.

A couple of weeks before Christmas my relatively new roof (~4 years) developed its 4th leak - I should have kept the old roof, grrrr! I noticed a small puddle on top of my left EP-400 (horrors) & immediately blamed the cats, ha! Then I saw drips over the window frame. Thankfully no damage to anything (Axiom vinyl seems waterproof) & I got a different roofer to correct mistake #4 - $100 bill.

Then my KitchenAid Dishwasher started acting up. It has a clean front with no positive locking handle (poor design IMO, but looks cool) - it is held closed largely by friction. What happens after a while is the door vibrates out just enough to disengage the micro switch thus causing the cycle to stop - repeatedly. I had resorted to pushing a kitchen chair against the door to hold it shut but that was a PITA. So, I bent the 'Striker' down to hold some more tension on the latch plus I loosened off the lower door hinges to reduce tension on the door. Thankfully, that seemed to work as the last 2 washes have completed normally. Hopefully we don't have to buy a new one for a while until we get this Furnace/AC thing sorted out.

Went to Canadian Tire to buy a couple of space heaters that are on sale for 20% off. I opened one box all OK. Opened box #2 - obviously it had been previously opened & was broken - a stripped assembly screw that would not come out. Take it back - another 10 mile round trip & another hour of my 'retirement' time wasted - arrrgh!! Why do retailers do that??

I believe that new furnace will be HE rated at 97%...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
AAAA #409355 01/10/15 09:06 AM
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Code here just changed. Most homes I work with with are now required to have fans pushing stale air out AND fans pushing fresh air in, separate of the interal requirement of the hi-efficiency units/combustion/needs.

Last edited by brwsaw; 01/10/15 09:07 AM.


Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409359 01/10/15 06:18 PM
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So, in the winter we now have to blow cold air IN & blow warm OUT?? How efficient is that? Is the internal house air that we have been living in over the past half century, that bad that we have to resort to this?

Over regulation again I would say!!

My 1992 furnace has a cold air intake from outside that is routed into the cold air ducting at the furnace. I hope that I don't have to retrofit my house for this nonsense...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409363 01/10/15 08:07 PM
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Really tight homes have HRV units (heat recovery ventilator). Well, they 'used' to be called HRV, now they are calling them ERV's (energy recovery ventilator). They are required in some homes, or you could quite possibly die in your sleep. I have one in my home that I installed when I built it in 99. I was able to get some points for installing one, which applied to a credit reduction program for energy efficient homes (4 star, 5 star, 5 star +).

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/commer...ery-Ventilators

Last edited by michael_d; 01/10/15 08:08 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409364 01/10/15 08:35 PM
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My 22 year old home is not really 'tight'. On the west coast, it is not desirable due to the prolonged wet winters that we have here - mold growth can be problematic. None apparent in my house so it must be working OK as it is.

Speaking of excessive regulations. BC upgraded its drinking water standards recently. Despite the fact that our drinking water in the Comox Valley is some of the finest in the world & plentiful, we have been on a 'Boil Water Advisory' for a month now because of 'turbidity' issues. CYA at work IMO. It is not the first time in the past century that it has rained hard here & caused slight turbidity - but now the panic is on. It is a complete PITA for restaurant & pubs to keep up this nonsense.

Rest assured, we are not boiling our drinking water in our house & we are still upright. Interestingly, there are reports of people getting sick from just brushing their teeth with tap water. Ya, right...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409367 01/11/15 03:26 AM
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As always, late to the party..... LOL. Everyone here seems to be on track, but I do have one comment on the cost of different fuels, and investing in a heat pump to save money.

An air-to-air heat pump runs totally on electricity, and can effectively extract heat out of the air down to ~ minus 12 deg C. (10 deg F) This means you still need a "backup" source of heat when the temperatures dip below that.

The real key is the cost of electricity compared to Natural Gas, Propane, or Fuel Oil.

At current electrical rates in Ontario, $1.00 into a heat pump will buy you ~40,000 btu's of heat. Here are the others:

Electric furnace or baseboard heaters - 17,000 btu's per $1.00
Natural Gas (Hi-Eff) - 75,000 btu's per $1.00
Propane (Hi-Eff) - 41,000 btu's per $1.00
Fuel Oil - 31,000 btu's per $1.00
GeoThermal - 73,000 btu's per $1.00
Pellet - 40,000 btu's per $1.00

Again, these are all based on current rates here in Eastern Ontario. YMMV. I can provide the formula's for anyone who would like to calculate based on rates in their region.


Shawn

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I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409369 01/11/15 03:54 AM
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As far as I know the island doesn't require the extra (2nd) fan.
They have changed the structural considerations (earthquake bracing, structural bracing etc.) a few times in the last year and rain water/air barrier considerations behind ALL siding types recently. Both additional required considerations in all new construction. That's my understanding anyway.
I'm 12hrs North, right on a division that changes requirements from "what they should have been all along" to "ok, who's paying for that" (HRV, triple pane loe E argon windows, R69 in the ceiling, 5/8" rain screen, etc.).



Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409372 01/11/15 08:03 AM
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Thanks for the explanations guys.

My bet is that natural gas prices will continue to be low for the next decade or so. Furthermore, we all know out here that BC electricity rates are climbing dramatically:

BC Hydro's proposed rate increase:

Year 1: 9 per cent (April 01, 2015)
Year 2: 6 per cent
Year 3: 4 per cent
Year 4: 3.5 per cent
Year 5: 3 per cent
Note: Each year's increase is a percentage of the previous year's rates. So, this compounds to +28% increase by 2019.

Therefore, I think that I'm staying with a HE Natural Gas Furnace & a HE Central Air Unit. I don't think that there is any advantage of a Heat Pump to me...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409378 01/11/15 04:41 PM
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Hey Shawn. By geothermal, do you mean a heat pump that extracts from the ground or are you talking geothermal a la Iceland (hotsprings)?


Fred

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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409379 01/11/15 06:08 PM
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Shawn:

Not to put you on the spot, but, do you have any experience/opinions with reliability/longevity of certain brands?

Unfortunately, there are so many horror stories by users on the net with even the supposedly 'top end' brands. The impression I get is that the old gear - that is replaced by these efficient but complex, sophisticated, computer controlled systems - worked far more reliably over their life. I think that I'm going to keep it as simple as possible at perhaps some penalty to overall system efficiency.

Keeping in mind that we live in a small market on Vancouver Island, my (probable) installer recommends Trane first then Carrier.

Awaiting our estimate tomorrow with some trepidation...

Thanks

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409380 01/11/15 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
... The impression I get is that the old gear - that is replaced by these efficient but complex, sophisticated, computer controlled systems - worked far more reliably over their life...

Tam. That seems to be the sad reality of consumer goods these days: lots of fancy 'features', not so much reliability. After 30 years of chasing the lowest price, North American consumers are reaping what they have sown...


Fred

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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409381 01/11/15 08:22 PM
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Well said fred.

After reading up on this & automotive issues since I recently bought a new Highlander, it seems that designers/manufacturers in many consumer product fields are including all of this 'aircraft type' technology without installing 'aircraft grade' parts. A mediocre grade sensor suddenly failing in a vehicle can cause a cascading effect (multiple dash warning lights) in the ECM system that suddenly puts the car into 'Limp Mode'. Not good on a morning commute in heavy, high speed freeway traffic if your car decides that it will only go 30 MPH. It is happening in far too many cases in virtually all brands.

That is why for the first time in my life that I bought a 7 year extended warranty for the Highlander. For example, the in-dash info screen unit is ~$7000 part that is covered for only 3 years. Wise decision? We'll see I guess.

As for furnace system reliability, thankfully we live in a benign climate where we won't freeze to death if it fails. Our gas fireplace, fans & space heaters are doing a good job keeping us comfortable; however, if we lived on the prairies where it has been below -20C for the last while, it would be a very different story...

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/11/15 08:29 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409382 01/11/15 08:28 PM
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Fred: Yes. Unfortunately, there are no hot springs here. frown

TAM:
Just like politics and religion, you will get some very strong opinions on what brands people feel are "the best". And you are correct - unfortunately even top rated brands have their problems. Personally, I have had great success with Carrier & Bryant. (They are the same equipment) Trane seems to have fewer dealers and a much lower market share here in Ontario, so I don't have as much experience with them.

Having said all that, a 2012 Consumer Reports article stated that between the top 10 selling brands, there was less than a 10% difference in reliability. I'm not a big CR fan, but there is no reason to doubt this stat.

In reality, the installing dealer you choose will have a far greater impact on your overall satisfaction, than the equipment choice. I would spend far more time researching the company than the equipment. Talk to friends and neighbours. Check the BBB. Have they been involved in any lawsuits? Visit their shop. Find out which crew is being sent out to your job. How much experience do they have? How long have they been with the company? What licences do they carry? Are both qualified?

Also in Ontario, we have the TSSA. (Technical Safety Standards Association) On their website, you can check to see if the company has been charged with any safety violations. I'm not sure you have anything like this in BC, but it might be worth looking into. Example here.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
Shawn


Shawn

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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409383 01/11/15 08:44 PM
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Thanks Shawn:

My neighbour across the street is a high-end contractor (moved from ON) who we have employed to do a bunch of ongoing renos in our house. He is more than trustworthy & his work is top tier with no shortcuts allowed - everything is done to code & he uses only qualified tradesmen to do plumbing, electrics, etc.

He has several local firms that he employs on his jobs so he knows which ones are good or not. He recommended this particular firm that I've been dealing with so I'm comfortable with them; however, I've not made any commitment as yet.

Interestingly, in his own newly renoed home, he had a high end Carrier Heat Pump & Electric Furnace System installed. The fan motor died in the second year. Contrast that to my 20 year old Lennox AC (looks like a POS now because of our salt air) is still running trouble free, although I'm sure that it is now on borrowed time...

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/11/15 08:45 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
real80sman #409385 01/11/15 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: real80sman
Fred: Yes. Unfortunately, there are no hot springs here. frown

Agree with you on the frowny-face for no hot springs. I loved going up to the hot springs in Banff for a soak several times a month over the winter.

I was not expecting that high an efficiency for a heat exchanger, so that's cool to know.


Fred

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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409386 01/11/15 11:48 PM
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Tam, that referral is gold - you are 3/4 of the way there. Just a matter of nailing the down the brand & specific models now. My vote would be for a 2 Stage Gas Valve with the DC Variable Speed Blower motor (ECM).

Now I may get some disagreement on this, but on the A/C side, I feel you don't need anything higher than 14 to 15 SEER efficiency. In Canada our electricity is relatively cheap, and our cooling hours are low.


Shawn

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I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409388 01/11/15 11:52 PM
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Was that the fan motor inside or outside that failed? Not a common failure, regardless. The great thing is that every manufacturer is giving a 10 year parts warranty nowadays.


Shawn

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I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409392 01/12/15 12:44 AM
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I believe that it was on the outside unit; however, I'll have to check with him & get back to you...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409393 01/12/15 01:17 AM
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Basically everything A/C, furnace related is owned by the Carrier corp.





I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409407 01/12/15 06:28 PM
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I check with my neighbour - it was the fan motor in the main heat pump unit outside. It just quit.

I was off on the age - it was 5-6 years old.

The parts warranties are indeed generous - mostly 10 to 12 years; however, there is the PITA factor when they fail & the cost of the service calls that can really add up over time.

My 22 year old Lennox WhisperHeat Gas Furnace needed only one part - the electric ignitor box about 8 years ago - over its life...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409580 01/18/15 07:56 PM
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Well, we have been living without a furnace for over 2 weeks because we haven't made a decision on 'system type' nor 'brand' yet. We have at least 5 neighbours & friends that have gone the 'heat pump/electric heat in the air handler' only route. All are very pleased, although with the predicted hydro rate increases, they may not be in the future.

Considering our benign climate here, with all auxiliary heat sources off overnight, the coldest the house gets is 17C overnight even though the OAT always gets down to close to freezing. We have had only 2 days of sunshine during that period for 'solar heating' through the large expanse of windows. I would surmise that the past 2 weeks have been very typical of the climate here in January, although we haven't had any blasts of really cold Arctic air that typically might total a week every year.

We are really quite comfortable - 20/21C in the day & 17C at night - without a central heating system. That really surprises us & we are kinda wondering why we need to spend 10 - 15000 dollars on an all singing all dancing system.

We have a couple of quotes - all from longtime, reputable installers here on high efficiency higher end gear:

Trane:

* Gas Furnace (80K BTU, 95%) + Heat Pump (SEER 16) - $10,400

* Gas Furnace + 2.5T Air Conditioner (SEER 16) - $9600

Lennox through CostCo - Cash Cards of $100 per $1000 spent (up to $1500) not included in the quotes below:

* Gas Furnace (90K BTU, 96%) + Heat Pump (SEER 18) - $12,400

* Gas Furnace + 3.5T Air Conditioner (SEER 18) - $11,800

* 3.5T Heat Pump (SEER 18) + 20 kWh Electric Aux Heat - $11,600

* Highest end Lennox System Furnace - $14,670(AC) to $15,600(HP)

All + GST of course.

We'll get a Carrier quote tomorrow, because since we aren't freezing to death, we have some time.

Any comments?

TAM

Last edited by exlabdriver; 01/18/15 07:58 PM.
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409582 01/18/15 08:11 PM
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Get a furnace from the wholesaler through your bud and pay cash to have it installed. Quotes are hilariously high. Markups are ridiculous.

A 95% gas furnace is considered poor nowadays.

Leave your existing AC. If it aint broke.....

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409589 01/18/15 10:58 PM
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Our AC is 20 years old as well & has suffered the ravages of salt air over that time. I believe that it can't be recharged anymore as they don't use that vintage type of coolant anymore - so it has to go.

From what I've been reading, the bleeding edge efficiency ratings seem to be accompanied by some flakiness & reliability issues, not unlike a high performance sports car...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409591 01/18/15 11:16 PM
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Man that's a catch 22 then.

Too bad nowadays the price-performance ratio has nothing to do with long term reliability it seems. I just hope you can make out a little better than those quotes. I know as soon as you go through a big outfit their costs and margins are reflected in your price.

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
BlueJays1 #409598 01/19/15 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Basically everything A/C, furnace related is owned by the Carrier corp.





Dude, not ONE of the joints in you ducting is taped. I highly suggest you invest some time into doing this to increase efficiency. I've literally taped every joint possible; starting right at the furnace and continuing along the heat and return ducting.


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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
Ya_basta #409599 01/19/15 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Da_Gimp_Pimp
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Basically everything A/C, furnace related is owned by the Carrier corp.


Dude, not ONE of the joints in you ducting is taped. I highly suggest you invest some time into doing this to increase efficiency. I've literally taped every joint possible; starting right at the furnace and continuing along the heat and return ducting.


That is a dated picture. Got many suspect joints especially ones in the crawl space taped this summer. I know what you mean though. The house could use all new updated ductwork actually but that went towards a 16KW whole-house generator instead.


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409607 01/19/15 07:32 AM
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On top of all this, my new 2014 Toyota Highlander (~1600 miles) wouldn't start on Friday so I missed my normal lunch with the guys at the pub. GRRRRRRRR.

I must say, these electronic cars do not like anything out of spec like a low battery. It protested so loudly that my neighbour across the street heard it - with some dismay. RoadSide Assistance came & boosted it & I drove it to the dealer. Of course, their fancy diagnostic gear found that it was less than half charge but other than that - no fault found. Why the low charge state - we don't know as nothing was left on in the car during the 6 days of no use.

I get it home & put it on slow charge (2 AMP) overnight & it never quite reaches full charge. Switch it up to 10 AMPs, & it fully charges in a couple of hours.

For my own interest, I thought that I'd track it with my trusty DVM. Keeping in mind that a fully charged battery should be ~12.6V with Min Charge of 12.4V, in the past 24 hours of not operating the car, the voltage has dropped from 12.58V, to 12.52V & tonight 12.4V.

According to several Highlander Forums, discharged batteries are not uncommon with this 2014 model - perhaps a bad batch?. Of course the service guys have never heard of such a thing. I pointed out an article in Edmund's.com where their long-term Highlander tester was stranded in a shopping center parking lot - along with many other similar occurrences. Their comment was - What is Edmund's?

In-frigging-credible...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409618 01/19/15 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
On top of all this, my new 2014 Toyota Highlander (~1600 miles) wouldn't start on Friday so I missed my normal lunch with the guys at the pub. GRRRRRRRR.

I must say, these electronic cars do not like anything out of spec like a low battery. It protested so loudly that my neighbour across the street heard it - with some dismay. RoadSide Assistance came & boosted it & I drove it to the dealer. Of course, their fancy diagnostic gear found that it was less than half charge but other than that - no fault found. Why the low charge state - we don't know as nothing was left on in the car during the 6 days of no use.

I get it home & put it on slow charge (2 AMP) overnight & it never quite reaches full charge. Switch it up to 10 AMPs, & it fully charges in a couple of hours.

For my own interest, I thought that I'd track it with my trusty DVM. Keeping in mind that a fully charged battery should be ~12.6V with Min Charge of 12.4V, in the past 24 hours of not operating the car, the voltage has dropped from 12.58V, to 12.52V & tonight 12.4V.

According to several Highlander Forums, discharged batteries are not uncommon with this 2014 model - perhaps a bad batch?. Of course the service guys have never heard of such a thing. I pointed out an article in Edmund's.com where their long-term Highlander tester was stranded in a shopping center parking lot - along with many other similar occurrences. Their comment was - What is Edmund's?

In-frigging-credible...

TAM

Bad alternator?
Between that and a battery, it could be an easy fix and likely one you could get for free by complaining enough to the dealer esp. if it was bought brand new.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409619 01/19/15 03:32 PM
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Dealership rule #1, admit nothing. I have been in the trade for 35yrs and one thing is for sure, you can not trust the dealer, just look at GM and ignition switch's . Thank god for the internet. There are so many little computers onboard acting like vampires sucking on the battery its not uncommon to see them go dead like this.


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Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409620 01/19/15 03:35 PM
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We have a mid efficiency Carrier unit. Looked into buying a high efficiency furnace as we were discussing an on-demand water heating system as well.
However, we would have to substantially change our ventilation for these units which unfortunately is not easy with our basement setup. The ONLY place to run a new exhaust tube would be through the existing rooftop chimney. That would entail replacing our furnace and hot water units at the same time.
Wasn't in the budget.
So we installed a second hot water tank with a recirculation pump instead and are keeping the furnace.
Our HVAC guy has assured us parts are not a problem for this 1991 Carrier unit and it has a lot of life in it yet and he highly recommended we just keep our existing furnace. I still expect at some point the main fan might be replaced.

Last edited by chesseroo; 01/19/15 03:36 PM.

"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
Gr8_White_North #409622 01/19/15 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Socketman
Dealership rule #1, admit nothing. I have been in the trade for 35yrs and one thing is for sure, you can not trust the dealer,

It isn't about trust though i agree and don't trust any dealer farther than i could throw them, but it is about getting a fix done for free from those who sold you a unit that should be in working order. I would be banging on the dealer's door six times over if the problem kept re-occurring, along with raising hell directly with the parent company, over and over until there was a satisfactory response and fix.

Of course, if there is a design flaw in a particular model year, that is kind of hard to get around unless the parent company admits it is an issue and comes up with a fix. They won't do that until they get tons of complaints about the same issue and if it is safety related, they prefer to keep things quiet. However with the recent fines levied on manufacturers for not admitting to known safety issues, they might be starting to smarten up a bit.

Then there's also the 'law of chance' which is to say, you may just have bought a lemon vehicle. I've known people who have had Ford Rangers for years and loved them, yet my friend's father bought one years ago and it had so many major problems that he hated the thing, vowed never to buy Ford again. He was always buying GM trucks so this was his more limited experience with Fords.
The problem list included a CRACKED ENGINE BLOCK (what the hell are the odds of that happening??!!), broken seat adjust levers & mechanisms (had to prop up the seat from behind with a milk crate), sticky accelerator mechanism (replaced multiple times with recurring issue), failed heater, failed dashclock/radio and a few other things that just don't come to mind at the moment.
Ultimately the truck had its final death when the dashboard caught on fire (internally) one day as his dad was driving up the road from their house and the truck melted to the point it was a write off.
Why all these unrelated issues with this one truck?
Just chance.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #409639 01/19/15 07:18 PM
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A friend's son just bought a brand new Nissan truck - battery died in 2 months. At least I've gotten 3 months so far.

Voltage this morning is 12.44V. The drop seems to have stopped for the moment...

TAM

Re: Furnace Failure - Arrrgh
exlabdriver #410164 02/10/15 08:36 PM
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Well after a month, we finally have central heat today! The unit was a bit cranky after the install (shutting down to over-pressure due to a bit too much refrigerant from the factory) but all is well now.

We went with a 3 Ton Heat Pump with equivalent Air Handler with 15 KW Electric Heat backup that ended up costing $8000 - much better than the other 2 quotes that were quite stratospheric.

What is really cool is this super duper touchscreen Venstar T-Stat T-5800 that tops the Consumer Report ratings. It's like having a small computer on the wall. If you are looking for a new T-stat, check out this one:

http://www.venstar.com/Thermostats/ColorTouch/

TAM

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