Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners m80v3 and harman hk3700/3770

Hello,

The harman Kardon HK 675 did an average to good job driving two Axiom m80 V3.

today there was a high odor of chemical smoke comming from the inside of this integrated amp.
I was not playing any sound, and sound volume was at lowest.

I was looking around receivers like a HK 3490 120W per channel and capable of 4ohms output.

Unfortunnaly, it's discontinuated.

They sell HK 3770 and 3700.
I downloaded the pdf, it say:
6/8 ohms.

I don't wanna take a risk, then i'm thinking about a hk 990.
It's way out of my budgect but very tempting.



There are already answers about amps choice in forum so i'm not in need, there is a Search function

But if I post this message here, it's just to know if HK 3770 and 3700 are able to drive the m80 V3.

I always checked old amps feature but new models looke strange.
i dunno what happend.

I heard about brands like outlaw.
I don't think i can find it in france i will try to look for an amp replacement on my own time anyway.

Thank you very much

I untight screws to access the amp.
Actually i see no traces of leaking capacitor.

Odor of burnt is somewhere between two fuse (fuse are in good shape) and two 12000 uF michicon capacitors.
of the lest power amp block.

It's maybe a part named RS802
V 502
AC
or just under it.

I don't wanna go further and unmount everything yet.

Culprit could be also the BA250V Massuse me-11 012-2H4...
but i know nothing about electronic.

I wanna ask to a electonic shop to repair it for me
but harman kardon on the manual say it's them job.

Edit:

there was lot of dust + spider webs.

I used a air horn to remove most of the dust, maybe it was just burnt dust?

After cleaning dust and rewiring everything fewminutes ago:
Volume was at min.
I just pressed the power switch and speacker 1.
But before i tryed to switch the standby mode off, there was this strong odor again.

If repair is not expensive i will go for it, or buy a new amp in 6 month.

That "burnt chemical smell" is a very unique smell and it's always bad news, unfortunately. I would not risk your connected speakers/equipment again, nor risk a fire in your house. UNPLUG that receiver and leave it unplugged.

If you can get a free or $20 quote locally (not pay for shipping) than do it, but I'm betting it's not worth fixing.

Are you just looking for a 2-channel amp or a HT 5.1/7.1 receiver/AVR?

Hello,

Thanks for the advice.

Ok where to start ?

I am looking this time for 2 channels power amps+ preamp, or integrated.

Idea is:

Every brand for me are ok as long it will not overheat with M80v3 at reasonable volume.

There are good review for almost every brand, and i have little to no preference.


I found as an exemple:

integrated:

Anthem I225f
has balanced xlr input and pre out.
No extras like dlna, optical input,
But i don't require a media player amp.

Axiom Ada-1000 +
and a preamp.

I know nothing about preamps just it's needed
and i have choice of features. No need to replace the amp if preamp die and vice-versa.

Third choice are monobloc amps + preamps.
But require more powering cables.

third : all in one like nova serie from peachtree.

In last choice, small sized amps:
like HK675, HK980.
But i will move to dedicated furniture instead of put audio material on my computer desktop.
So i can have freedom of choice about amps models again.


Ok so:
80w or even 60w per channel @ 8ohms is enough.
I just need more freedom sometime.

Distorsion happend on HK675 at half volume.
Off course i don't need to go that far often.

But you know about very good old cd not clipping recorded at -20 dbfs peaks.

This is the time i need power


Thanks you again.

I went the integrated route with an Arcam A19 for a while. My advice is get something with decent gutz. The Arcam went into the classifieds within 6 months. Replaced with a unit that will carry me to retirement.

50wpc was a waste of time. I would suspect the peachtree nova at 65w(?) wouldnt be superb either. I quickly lost faith in online reviews and mags after that experience. Stereophile subscription not renewed. I would use reviews for info and not much else.

Seriously, if you are into stereo audio get a tanky 150wpc setup and be set for life. Integrated is definitely the cheaper route.

My opinion I guess. Good luck!

Most amps sold in stores a where i live show
50-60w amps up to 2000 e price.
First second and third page on website are full of them.


I know some cinemas had very expensive tubes amps for the same wattage, paired with very efficienct speackers and sound was very loud.

So i'm not judging anything.
I will stop speacking too much about audio material or it will become a troll topic.

Actually i found monoblocs 100-200w ~ and it's less or equal to 1000e a pair.

I will avoid low wattage rms amps just for my setup.
I won't look at 1000w amps either

I can find some integrated amps price range under 1000e and sometime 400e they are about 120w @ 8 ohms .
It should be ok right now.

I just remember sailers trying to convince me about good 40w amps.
But like i sayd before i went to axiom i had not the speacker to be paired with that amp, so i bought the hK675 80W at 8 ohms.

Anyway your opinion is nice, i was thinking i could look atlow wattage amps and my ego urged me to look for morepower.

I t's just a question of trade

Have you tried the used market? There are a lot of very rich people who get bored of their gear and buy new every 3-5years. Yay for us! Most high end used gear is babied as well. Your dollar goes a lot farther in the used market performance wise.

A beefy older cambridge amp would be a nice find.

I found on the web a serious shop selling used hifi audio and new items:

Audio Research SDP1 + SDA1 1150e instead of 7000e
Nad C275BEE 600e instead of 1299

I will start a search, good to not put eggs in the same bag.

Also a very good deal:

Musical Fidelity A3.5 for 500e.

Yep lot of choice almost everywhere.

I can get for 1199e at -19% at sales period i think an Anthem I225

And there is more to come.

Thanks Serenity_Now for the idea,

It was more difficult to get a good cathodic ray on used market, but wow , about audio it's raining good offers.

The sad part today is 50W does not equal 50W. I have an old Nakamichi AV1 that is rated at 100W. It will blow the proverbial doors off a $3000 Pioneer Elite AV unit rates at 250W+ at 4Ω

I have tried one of the new amps on a set of Axiom M80v4 and turned the volume up to point of clipping and it wasn't all the impressive. The Nak, I can get to about 1/2 before the room starts to shake and there is still life left inside of it.

I'd recommend looking for an older receiver if all you want is 2 channel sound.. the simply don't make them anywhere near like they use to.

When i was at age of 4 to ten years old,
my father had a random 120w per channel integrated amp, and cheap sealed speackers you could find easily everywhere.

Soundstage was good, accuracy i can't tell yet.

It's difficult to argue for or against todays and old components.

Just to say you have people buying on ebay amps used at recording studios, and the same people say they have problem to find the same sound than when they was younger.

Again i was young, i had no experience so far with audio.
I was pleased by old setup at house and i had good hears

Hi
I own the M80v3 and the HK 3490
Honestly, look at another two channel amp. Not really overly impressed. Think it maybe closer to 80w per channel. not much volumn at all, if I need to play a bit loud occassionally I am at +10db of a possible +15
When I had my Denon 3808 for comparison I was maybe -5bd to 0db
Anthem 225 is a better choice.

Hard to conclude such a thing when this statement is limited to one metric of these amps. Likely the issue between these amps is that one has much less capacitance than the other such that during music transients there is a greater voltage drop. This doesn't change the fact that both amps are likely appropriately rated as 50W each.

Two things.
First, the HK 3490 is an audio/video receiver which has an amplifier section. It is not an "amp" which is typically a term used when referring to a stand-alone component that does nothing but amplify the signal.

Second, if you are turning your receiver up that high (and yes, on that HK scale, a +10db with a max of +15db is probably about 90%-95% of its maximum volume), you are likely driving this receiver into clipping with the M80s.
If you feel the need to turn the volume up that much, you should absolutely be using a separate amp. I would be shocked if you are not hearing distortion at that level, or perhaps are just not recognizing it.

I would tend to agree with Matt about the state of amp channels in mass market current AVRs- notably the pioneer elites (used to own a 9130thx and just demoed an SC-85.)

I think the power ratings increasing year after year and weight decresing year after year is not a good thing at all. Class D switching or no, the power supplies in newer gear are definitely "good enough" solutions. My opinion anyway.

Matt we agree on something!

I will reiterate, wattage is only one metric to denote the potential of an amp. Also cannot judge an amp by weight especially without knowing its class; unless that person also judges speakers by wrapping knuckles on the side of them, or checks out used car quality by kicking its tires.

Hello again.


i saw few pro amps show only this specs:
THD+N in % at 1 kHz

consummer add this spec often:
THD+N in % at 20 kHz (100 W into 8 1)


Both of consummer and pro amps, if i turn down the volume it will lower THD+n by a good to hudge ammount.

Maximum average power in watts at 0.5% THD, 1 kHz for a class D amp of my choice:

2 ohm 1,200 watts
4 ohm 775 watts
8 ohm 440 watts

If i lower volume to 80 -95% it should be fine no ?



This time reading about harmonic distorsion.
I discovered:
Human hear is the most sensitive at: 2,000-5,000 Hz

So if i understand less than 1% of thd+n (100 W into 8 1)
if a distorsion happen between 2000-5000 hz

I will dislike the sound.

1% distorsion outside the human hearing range is nothing, right ?

By the way i found something irittating:
Shops i visited when they put integrated amps specs,
They put the préamp specs like if it was the amplifier part.
It's confusing, it force you to visit the brand website to find infos.

I'm really thinking about to switch to a class D analog pro power amp.

Ah ok now i need a preamp.

If try to use search function.

Pro shops sells principally Pre amp for : Guitar , Mics.

I need to find a pre amp with multiple xlr , or and unbalanced input.
off course a Volume control, and finally balanced output (xlr) to feed the pro power amp .

Right now i only found pre amps at hifi shops.

Now what is the proper name for a preamp in pro audio world ?

Mixer table with preamp + mic output ?
Am i missing something ?

Thanks for the answers to this silly question

ps:

If needed i can buy a direct box to convert my emu 0404 -10dbv mono 6,5mm jack outputs to xlr output.

It's not a problem.

I did some search, and preamp if i understand is a set of one or multiples devices that do:


Apply gain,
level every inputs to desired output level consummer or commercial,
Mix multi entry together into one master mix
used as a switch for each input, (a bitlike a integratedamp)

Volume control aka pot
Loop , inserts inputs...
Pre amp for phono, phantom devices,
Pre amp for line instruments,
and more

So what i'm looking at is a sort of a Line Mixer but with integrated switch, and maybe possibility to use a control device like a external volume pot ?

Yes?

We are still talking about a 2ch setup, no?

Axiom's going to have some preamps coming out: http://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/sneak-peek-into-axioms-current-research-and-development/

Hello,

Yes i'm still trying to feed two M 80v3 with any system available.

looking for informations everywhere.
It took time for me but i realized:
Integrated amplifier is the simple way.

hifi preamp + pro/hifi power amp come second.

Features irequire:

1: I can switch different sources easily pressing one button.

2: the device has unbalanced and balanced inputs (multiple rca, one or more xlr)

3 optional to drive pro amps:
balanced output (xlr or trs)

possible exemple:
Parasound-Halo-P3.
a future Axiom preamp.


Obsolete idea i had before posting today this message:

Pro shops devices:

A mixer:
It has volumes control, gain...
it has multi inputs, inserts
IT can control each channel strips individually.
It can be used as a preamp.

problem: mixing different channels into a final mix.
is not the same thing than switching sources with a simple button ?


I tryed other items category:

A passive monitor volume control.
is the start.

but it does lack Some sort of audio hub or switch ?

I finally found a not that expensive path :

Rca audio switch: 4 rca input to one rca output for consummer audio.
price range : 9 to 40 euro.

Active direct box: start price: 33 euros

Monitor volume control : start price 28 euros
can be replaced by something like a Presonus Central Station Plus
or other devices, if needed by people who need things like this.

of course audio cables,

and finally a power amp class D.

About the audio rca switch it found it inside an informatic shop.

I found at hifi shops A/B listening switch and it's very expensive.

I begin to understand how audio thing is working, it can be very interesting.

Here i share the little search i did on my own.

edit: just saw a class G amp (apart champ-2 ) and it's exactly what i needed.




Have a good day everybody

yes I know , but as been told hear before +10 don't matter because there's still lots of headroom. I hate it and am looking into the ADA 1250 someday. I thought the HK 3770 was a 7.1 ch reciever ?