Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions connecting cheap recievers to amps

Hey folks, I'm thinking of building a system using a number of stereo / multichannel amps (ie: OnkyoM282; HK PA2000/4000) to allow for future flexibility and try to minimize the cost of staying up to date with reciever technology by connecting them to a cheap AVR, which can be replaced on a semi regular basis (couple of years).

My question is can I connect a reciever ( like the Sony
STR-DE697 and use it as a processor/preamp ) which has no Pre Amp outputs to a couple of amps, say for the front L + R? Or do I have to have PreAmp outputs?

Would there be difficulty in adjusting SPL levels with such an arrangment?

If I can do this what if any problems would this create over an all-in-one reciever.

The reason I ask is it seems that only the real expensive recievers have the PreAmp outputs which wouldn't make any sense to purchase as the whole point would be to invest in some good clean power and update the reciever on a semi-regular basis to stay abreast of the latest sound processing and newest connections (like firewire )ect.

What bothers me about the AVR thing is spending alot of money on a good one (like the 3805 which I'm considering)with good amplification and then later on replacing it with another one ( and repurchasing more internal amplification )just to get the latest and greatest features of contemparary AVR's.

Hope this makes sense and thanks for the advice in advance.

Cheers, Michael

ubid.com is running an auction for 4 of the Onkyo HTR 510 6.1 channel 100 watt x 6 receivers with DTS, multi channel inputs, etc.

http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=9643794

Onkyo makes wonderful receivers with very sophisticated DSP modes. 96kHz/24-Bit Digital-to-Analog Converters: The HT-R510 receiver is equipped with six 96kHz/24-bit DACs to decode and play high-resolution recordings.

Subwoofer Adjustable Crossover: This receiver has a built-in crossover for the subwoofer output. This setting is available when you tell the receiver that there is a subwoofer being used, or when you set your main speakers to "Small". The frequencies that you can choose from are: 60, 80, 100, 120, and 150Hz, Surround Modes:

Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital EX
Dolby Pro Logic II (Movie and Music)
DTS
DTS-ES (Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1)
DTS Neo:6 (Cinema and Music)
DSP Modes:

Orchestra
Unplugged
Studio-Mix
TV Logic
All Ch Stereo

Current auction price $45.00. You can probably end up with one of these for about $150 shipped. If you can, grab it! If the price goes too high, find yourself a nice Panasonic SAHE200 receiver - these things are incredibly good, very reasonably priced and under appreciated.

You can get M282 amps from ubid for about $100 if you wait for the right auction. Get 3 of them.

I've used 3 M282s with a Sony STRDB 1070 doing processor duties. I love this system! I think using an Onkyo HTR 510 with 3 x M282s would be at least as good.

Thanks 2X6spds, this was pretty much my idea, I'm just concerned about the implications if any of connecting an amplified signal from a reciever, with no separate preamp outputs, to an amp.

Can anyone tell me if it's a problem, or any issues I'd encounter by directly connecting the speaker output from a reciever to another amp.

My assumption has been since the signal had already been amplified, connecting it to another amp would be a problem.

Also how about adjusting the SPL on all speakers, in the system. eg: if one is using say separate amps connected to a reciever for the Front L + R and then connecting the centre and surrounds directly to the reciever.

My apologies if this is completely obvious, but as I've never owned a HT reciever or amps I really have no clue as to what if any complications I could be getting into by doing this as apposed to using a reciever only.

Thanks again for the help, Mike

You're going to need preouts. You could probably destroy an amp pretty good connecting a speaker output to it. I think that the receivers with preouts generally will adjust the levels to those preouts.

Hi Jag,

Ken is right. Unless you only want two channel, you're going to need a processor (Receiver) with pre-outs. I would very strongly discourage you from connecting an amplified signal into the line-level input of an amplifier. And I do not think it will be possible for you to set the separate speaker levels using your proposed methodology.

If you are REALLY committed to the expense and fidelity of separate amps, I don't think that it makes good sense to scrimp on the processor part. Any receiver from a reputable manufacturer that has pre-outs is going to have prodigious amounts of power. I'd start with the usual suspects (Denon 2805, Yamaha 1400, Onkyo 701?) and see when the "I want an amp" upgraditis hits.

Jag, KC is absolutely correct! I should have made it clear that you MUST connect the receiver's PRE-OUTS to the amps' inputs and then connect the amps to the speakers.

So, for example, you would connect the preout from the center and back surround to 2 channel amp no. 1, the front L/R preouts to 2 channel amp no. 2, the side surround L/R preouts to 2 channel amp no. 3.

Works very well this way. Forget about the amp section of your receiver, you'll be using your receiver as a processor/tuner only feeding low level output signals to your outboard amps, and from the amps, amplified signal to the speakers.

Sorry! Hope you haven't tried to connect amplified signals to your outboard amps!

Piff!
(the sound of speaker outs being connected to amps)

Thanks Guys.

Don't worry 2x6spd I'm still in the planning phase and it would have taken a bit of convincing to connect things that way as it felt rather counter intuitive, that's why I was asking.

Tomtuttle: indeed this seems to be the crux of the problem for me. I'm wanting to build the system as flexible as possible, hence the separate amp idea, but I'm not wanting to do it for a cost of more than something like a Denon 2805/3805. I was hoping this would be possible then at least I could update the reciever once in a while and not have to re-spend more money on amplification just to get the latest and greatest features of the day.


So then the question becomes:

Hanging out here for a while I have developed the idea that it seems the consesus here in choosing a reciever is to look for features that you want, since all well made brands ( ie like onkyo, yamaha, denon, harman, nad )are equivalent sound wise. look for "Quality and Features" seems to be the operative words.

In this case then would you folks think a combination of say Harman Kardon multichannel amps or Onkyo M282's with a cheaper reciever like a Sony ( provided it has preouts ) would sound worse that a good reciever from one of the brands mentioned above. If such a combination would NOT be as good then that pretty well solves my dilema as I'm not prepared to spend more than the cost of a good reciever like a Denon 3805, even though I'd still like the flexibilty of separates.

Thanks, Mike

You want to go to the next level of audio nirvana?

Here's the answer -

1. Go to ebay and find a new/refurbished Sony TA E9000ES Processor. (This processor has multichannel preouts, but does not have multichannel inputs)*

2. Pick up a used Yamaha M80 2 channel amp (continuous power/8ohms 20-20K 250 watts per channel - Dynamic Power 1Khz 6 ohms 480 watts, into 4 ohms 640 watts per channel. SN ratio 127 db, damping factor 1Khz/8 ohms = 250. These are spectacular specs!) Try to find one for under $200.

3. Pick up 2 Onkyo M282 100 watt per 2 channel amps for about $100-150 each from ubid.com one for center front and a second for side surrounds.

* The Sony TA E9000ES processor is simply a spectacular piece of music reproduction equipment. It is a 5.1 channel processor. Do a google search for reviews and specs. Try to find a new/refurb for $500 or less. Sony still sells the few they have left for about $1700 each.

Make your Axioms come alive, boy!!!!