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Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51780 08/18/04 02:12 AM
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2x6 spd,
I found a MG SI 5 Dt for around $650.00 but it is the second upgrade not the third. Do you think this is a good deal? Also I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and a Panasonic unit I can use for the system for stereo sound. How old is your unit, if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks,
Lee


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Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51781 08/18/04 02:14 AM
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I went and auditioned a Cary SLI-80
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/audio/sli80.shtml
vs a SimAudio Moon i-5 integrated
http://www.simaudio.com/mooni5.htm
with the Dynaudio Contour S1.4
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/contour/contour14.htm
and Martin Logan Aeon
http://martinlogan.com/aeon_i_speaker.html
All items above where in the $4000 cdn range each.
Having me/and then my dad switching the amps using A-B type setup we both preffered the solid state over the tube. In all time there was more detail in the midrange and highs with solid state. The tubes did well with guitar and horns which gave it a lifelike sound I still enjoyed the numourous amounts of detail the Moon integrated was pushing. As with better midrange quality and pinpointing...the Dynaudio monitor did a better job than the electrostatic Martin Logans. That monitor imaged like crazy...very very detailed and sweet.


Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51782 08/18/04 02:23 AM
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2x6spds Offline OP
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Saturn, those are some interesting systems you listened to. The Martin Logans and the Dynaudios especially require big power to drive them. I can't think of any speakers less suitable to most tube amps than the MLs or the very inefficient 4 ohm, difficult to drive, Dynaudios. Both set ups require big power solid state amplification.

I've only listened to 2 Cary's and was surprised not to like them. I noticed a pretty high background sound level with these amps.

Someday, you may want to try some low power SET tube amps with efficient speakers - you may like this combination better - I know I do.

KM, my first source was a 10 year old JVC 5 disc changer which sounded great. I upgraded to a Cambridge D500SE, sounded like crap. Ended up with an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output modified Marantz CDP and found the perfect match for SET tube magic.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51783 08/18/04 02:29 AM
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BTW, Jeff's Sound Values down near San Diego has an MG S1 15DT-S for $525. There shouldn't be any difference between the last 2 generations of this amp. The new one uses the new chassis but its components, sockets, wiring, tubes, etc. are the same.

http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com/Inventory/Preamps.htm


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51784 08/18/04 02:30 AM
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2x6 spds,
What do you think about the 2nd revision ASL MG Si 15 DT do you think it's worth $650.00
Thanks,
Lee


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Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51785 08/18/04 02:32 AM
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2x6 spds,
Sorry you must have written just about the time I started to write you.
Thanks,
Lee


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Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51786 08/18/04 03:50 AM
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Thats what I figured...I wished the guy in the store schlepped over the Triangle Celius which is more tube friendly and is pretty efficient. I guess I personally wont be going tubes since most of the speakers I own happen to be in the 4ohm or less range.
Would you go as far and stating less efficient speakers with low ohm range is better suited with solid state while more efficient speakers that have metal drivers would work well to tame the "harshness"... but then again we shouldn't go there.

Have you tried A-B with the same speakers your SS and tube gear? and see what the difference is?



Re: Musical Marantz Stereo Amp
#51787 08/18/04 06:24 AM
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Hi Saturn

Not exactly. Tubes like a resistive load. A resistive load is characterized by a flat impedance, and an inductive rather than a capacitive phase angle. Tube amps tend to do better with speakers which do not make large current demands on the amp by swinging from 8 ohms to 2 ohms and back again. Gradual impedence changes are easier for tube amps to drive. Tubes like a steady load - capacitance is the opposite. When a speaker behaves in a capacitant manner, it presents an uneven load to the amp, asking the tube amp to put out large quantities of current in a short amount of time. Speakers which make such demands on amps are not tube friendly.

Therefore, what makes a speaker tube friendly is not whether it is rated at 4 ohms or 8 ohms, but rather whether the speaker's impedance is relatively flat and consistently hovers around 4 ohms, and if the phase angles are more inductive than capacitive.

Same for efficiency ratings - if you look at the graphs of some speakers rated at 8 ohms you will see that they are measuring less than 4 ohms for much of their fr curve.

Stereo Times has a review of the Dynaudio Audience book shelf speakers - a very tough load for a tube amp, a very demanding load for a solid state amp!
http://www.stereotimes.com/speak081604.shtm

Martin Logans and Maggies like really powerful solid state amps.

The M3Ti is an extremely tube friendly speaker. I think part of the reason for this is that there is no cross over between the amp and the driver, the simple cross over is hooked to the tweeter only.

The Triangle Celius is a wonderful speaker, very tube friendly even with the ASL 5 wpc MG S1 15 SET amp.

I haven't A-B'd my M22 like Michaura M55s with tube and solid state, but I had 2 set up with my 5 wpc tubie and have 4 M55s in my office system. The front 2 are driven by a Yamaha M80 gentle BRUTE of a 250 wpc 2 channel amp - the side surround pair driven by a 100 wpc Onkyo M282. I listen to mostly music on the HT system. I love them both, the Yamaha is an exceptional amplifier and makes stunningly beautiful music. But for kicking back at the end of the day my favorite system for music is the 2 channel tube system.




Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
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